KEP pressure plate issue- Subaru swap Options

[roachghia70]

I just tore my car apart to track down my clutch issue. And this is what I found:


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i255.photobucket.com-2153-1410734105.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i255.photobucket.com-2153-1410734105.2.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i255.photobucket.com-2153-1410734106.3.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i255.photobucket.com-2153-1410734106.4.jpg)


I think I had my clutch cable too tight. And with the pedal fully depressed, I was pushing the Throwout bearing so far that the second step was hitting the pressure plate. But with the clutch any looser, it wouldn't disengage and I couldn't get it into gear.
So it was basically impossible to adjust the clutch.


I've heard that maybe my pivot bolt needs to be shimmed.

I've also heard that some KEP V8 kits have incorrect geometry in them, causing you to have to shim the pivot bolt or modify the fork.

Anyone have that problem with Subaru KEP kits, or has anyone seen this type of pressure plate damage before? I'm about to order new parts, but I just want to understand the problem so it doesn't happen again.

Thanks for your help!

[Mike Bellis]

I don't think it was your cable too tight. Spacing the pivot can help if you're not disengaging enough. I guess it would change the geometry slightly but not solve that issue.

Clearly a self machining process started. I would first ask if the through out bearing seized? Maybe you are sitting still too long and not driving your car? Maybe that KEP pressure plate is a POS? Maybe you have the wrong bearing?

[roachghia70]

Great questions, thanks! The bearing is not seized, and I'm pretty sure it's the correct one. Can you tell if it's correct from that picture? It's old and a little noisy, but fine otherwise.

This whole clutch setup was installed in the car when I bought it, and it seemed to work fine for about 5000 miles. But recently, the car would sometimes grind slightly going into reverse but only when the engine was warmed up. So I tightened the cable, thinking maybe it had stretched. And I think that's what caused this major 'self machining' issue. I drove the car maybe 100 miles that way before the clutch got much worse and I parked it.

I had a difficult time with the clutch adjustment, which is why I ended up over tightening. I would tighten the cable, then turn on the car in neutral and try to put it in gear. It would grind, so I tightened it more. I repeated this several times until it got to the point that when I pushed the clutch pedal all the way down (with the pedal stop unscrewed all the way) the clutch made a strange noise. I should also mention that the free play at the top of the pedal motion was long gone. There was zero free play at that point.

In hindsight, I think the noise was the 'self machining' occurring. And I think it was caused by the second step of the throwout bearing, which doesn't rotate with the pressure plate BTW, to hit the pressure plate when it was overextended.

But I drove it to work that way, and found out the clutch slipped a bit under boost. So I assumed the clutch cable was way too tight. But the problem was that if I loosened it, it'd grind into gear much worse! Even with the super tight cable, it would still grind into gear a little bit, especially once warmed up. That's why I suspect the clutch fork pivot geometry may be off. It was just impossible to adjust the clutch cable.

I just don't want to spend a few hundred more dollars on clutch parts and find out there's a problem I overlooked. Has anyone had this sort of problem before?

I don't think it was your cable too tight. Spacing the pivot can help if you're not disengaging enough. I guess it would change the geometry slightly but not solve that issue.

Clearly a self machining process started. I would first ask if the through out bearing seized? Maybe you are sitting still too long and not driving your car? Maybe that KEP pressure plate is a POS? Maybe you have the wrong bearing?

[DBCooper]

I'd say KEP will have the best answer, but it's odd that only seven of the diaphragm fingers on one side were damaged and not all of them, all the way around. Do those fingers still function normally, the same as the undamaged ones, when you, for example, step on them to mimic the action of the throw-out bearing? Does the spring diaphragm function normally and equally all around? Reason I ask is to know if the diaphragm is still intact or if it cracked, which might explain the unbalanced damage.

[matthepcat]

I think the problem is the universe is telling you to go Suby trans swap.

[Cap'n Krusty]

I've run across the difficult to disengage problem with KEP clutches several times. KEP was ZERO help in solving the problem. I finally voted with my feet. No more KEP products for me or my customers.

The Cap'n

[roachghia70]

I'd say KEP will have the best answer, but it's odd that only seven of the diaphragm fingers on one side were damaged and not all of them, all the way around. Do those fingers still function normally, the same as the undamaged ones, when you, for example, step on them to mimic the action of the throw-out bearing? Does the spring diaphragm function normally and equally all around? Reason I ask is to know if the diaphragm is still intact or if it cracked, which might explain the unbalanced damage.

You're right, it's odd that one half of the fingers were cut through while the other half were untouched (at the larger diameter wear pattern). I will step on the pressure plate tonight and check to see if half of it was broken. that would explain the wear coming from one side only, because the plate would have to be spinning around with a high side and a low side in order to get that damage, right?

I've run across the difficult to disengage problem with KEP clutches several times. KEP was ZERO help in solving the problem. I finally voted with my feet. No more KEP products for me or my customers.

The Cap'n

That sucks to hear. I've used maybe a dozen KEP products through the years, mostly Subaru adapters and VW type1 and type4 pressure plates. I've never had a big problem, but this might be my first.
I am of the mindset that these are aftermarket "racecar" parts, and thus carry no warranty. Because the parts are going to be used and abused in high performance applications. But at the same time, if there is an obvious manufacturing defect (which I don't think that I have evidence of in my case) then you'd expect the manufacturer to stand behind their product.
I'll report back what they say once I hear back from them.

I think the problem is the universe is telling you to go Suby trans swap.

I think you're right. I'm looking at close to $400 to fix the 901 clutch issues, by the time I replace a bunch of bushings, clutch, pressure plate, hardware, etc... At the same time, I have access to a very cheap 5 speed Subaru transmission, and I already have a cable shifter. PLUS, I have my dad's car to use for reference. And my ColdWater cradle is set up to accept the Subaru trans already. AND the trunk floor is all cut out of my car in need of a filler section to be welded into place anyway, so I might as well do the swap now before welding up the floor.
It would almost be stupid to put a 901 back into the car, wouldn't it?!

I could sell the good 901 side shifter, sell the Subaru adapter and flywheel, and almost pay for the Subaru trans swap. The only problem I see is that I will want to keep the car once it's done.

[DBCooper]

The only problem I see is that I will want to keep the car once it's done.

I'm sitting here trying to imagine how that's a problem.... Hmmm....

[matthepcat]

The only problem I see is that I will want to keep the car once it's done.

I'm sitting here trying to imagine how that's a problem.... Hmmm....

Lol. I guarantee it will be easier to sell the car when you do...for more money