Up Right Cooling Fan - 914 Options

[David Mueller]

Has any onw seen oneof these installed on a 2.0 L with carbs ? Does any one know where I might find one ? New or Used would be fine... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif)

[seanery]

I saw one on a bug convertible with a 2.1 type IV.

It looked pretty good. We've had discussions here about it's functionality.

search for upright fan or 911 fan or the like and you should be able to find the info.

[Lawrence]

Didn't the Z-meister just do this to his 356? I only glanced at that thread, except for the doctored pics... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

There are many ways out there for going "upright" on a Type IV engine.

Joe Cali has written a book on how to DIY with bits from a couple of different Type I applications. A Google search on "joe cali next gen" ought to turn up his site.

Joe Lociero at Oregon Performance had a very nice "DTM" setup that came very very highly recommended.

Jake Raby is making a setup that sounds like it will be pretty nice.

Bernie Bergmann makes one kit that looks 911-like.

FAT Performance makes another 911-like kit.

Mike Sharpe at Sharpbuilt in Australia makes at least two, I think--one Bug-looking and one 911-looking.


The bad news:

Almost all of these are intended to help people fit our motors into Bugs, not to keep them in 914s.

The Joe Cali setup may not provide enough cooling for a large-displacement engine.

Joe Lociero died and his son who took over from him was very bad about actually building the DTM shrouds.

Raby's stuff wasn't yet done the last I checked, and the first production run is pre-sold.

Bergmann uses a Rabbit alternator which doesn't seem to hold up well to having the large cooling fan on it. The quality of the rest of the kit has also been called into question by a few people.

The FAT Performance kit is bloody expensive.

The Sharpbuilt ones require some modifications, supposedly, to fit well.

Every one of these setups except the FAT one requires machining of the crankcase in the breather area to make it work.


Last I heard, Z was gonna use the dual electric fan thing. Bad idea for his application IMHO. The Type IV itself is about 5" longer than the 356 motor, even without the stock cooling. The electric fan setup is longer than that--more cutting to do. And I don't like the fact that (potentially) unreliable electric switches and motors are going to be used to run the cooling system. I wouldn't use an electrical oil pump for the same reason.

--DD

[Mueller]

John Rogers is running a 911 fan conversion kit on his big /4:

(IMG:http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/914_rogers_racing/DSC00016.JPG)

Some of the kits require that you machine off the oil filler gallery on top of the motor. I believe the FAT Performance kits do not need that modification

[Jake Raby]

Fit and cosmetics are one thing........Practicality and something that actually work are another....

I tested cooling systems for 29 hours at 3500 and 4800 RPM......(470 bucks just in pump gas alone).More air was WORSE for cooling! even on my own shroud that uses a radial fan!

You gotta use what is made....Simply the TIV engines is physically TOO SMALL for all that air! It cannot escape and creates inefficiency!

The key is putting the air where it neds to be. We did that.

[Aaron Cox]

so willl the 911 fan conversions fit into a 914 engine bay? if so, do they use a porsche alternator or do they have to do the rabbit thing

[Jake Raby]

They will fit and so will my DTM shroud.........My shroud outperformed 5 different 911 shrouds on the same engine....Dyno results soon to be on my new site!@

[Aaron Cox]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif)

some installed ones would be cool too.....does anybody make 2 barrel weber watershield air cleaner covers? (reason i ask is: i would think you need to remove the raintray to fit the fan setup)

[john rogers]

Thank's for posting the picture. It worked well since we kept the sheet metal around the cylinders and used a standard 911 alt and fan and an aftermarket pulley on the crankshaft. The air that came out the bottom was greater that with a standard type IV setup, or at least it seemed to me when I would be standing beside the rear wheels working on the car. You do have to lose the rain tray, but hell it never rains in So Cal and it is a race car anyways. Another big advatnage is the alt has much more output than any size stock 914 alt.

[Andyrew]

Jake, I read that the stock cooling was the best on your web sight in a recent thread.. but I also read that you drilled holes (?) and got some extra cooling? If so, could you elaborate on this? maybe some pics?

Thanks

[Brad Roberts]

I found the best cooling on our racing 2.0 engine (FAT upright fan shroud) for GT3 SCCA by running the 5 blade 2.7 fan that everybody GIVES away.


Welcome Jake.. bout time.


B

[Jake Raby]

Brad, email me and I will shoot youn some behind the scenes graphs from my test that will blow your mind, and make you want to consider something....

[Britain Smith]

I am currently going through the modifications to fit a sharpbuilt 911 fan shround on my type-4 motor. I have already machined the case and fit the 911 fan housing the case. This is something that was supposed to be hard, but was very easy. I am using an early 911 11-blade fan and housing with a Porsche 55-amp alternator.

Type-4 Details Here.

I will post more pictures as everything comes together.

-Britain

[Mueller]

Britain,

Have you been following Jakes fan/dyno adventures??? Interesting reading...........


I just don't like the look of the DTM housings (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Britain Smith]

I haven't read anything but the post that he put on this forum. I was out of town this last weekend and have been playing catch-up. He actually used the sharpbuilt shroud that I sent him because the one that I got had the spark-plug holes in the wrong place.

I personally think that the DTM shroud is probably pretty effective, but as you said not the best looking thing in the world. Since I will be turbo charging my motor and running an intercooler, I think the 911 fan shroud will be more than sufficient and will look kick-ass. I already have the 11-blade fan, and made the engine case modifications so I am at the point of no return now.

-Britain

[Jake Raby]

Looks kill, but as long as you go into it knowing thatthere's nothing else I can do....It absolutely amazesme how much cosmetics play into engines......But you'll see that engine builders don't make their own personal cars for cosmetics 99% of the time....

The Sharpebuilt system ranked #2 in the 911 system testing...But it, like all the rest of the shrouds sucked big time with the large 3.655 OD 911 pulley. I would only consider the small 3.300" pulley for any application more than a mildly tuned 2056. The differences were almost 100 degrees between the two drive ratios!

When my Composite DTM becomes available, along with the "Aluminized Fiberglass" version ( it looks like billet weave) the looks part will change and the practicality and effectiveness will still be there....

Its an engine, fit and function should be PARAMOUNT over anything else......Just my view from trying to make things live, more than making them "look"...The way it looks inside is all that concerns me...Attention to detail is everything!

[Mueller]

Jake,
(and others),

Did you do any testing with the stock Type IV cooling system?
How about a modified Type IV cooling system? (cleaning up the casting or changing vane shape or even swapping out the fan for different diameter or style??)



I actually like the basic design of the factory cooling system since it does not require a seperate belt (except for the alt. of course) and it offers a low profile compared to the upright fans.

The horizontal fans look neat, but suck up HP (the gear driven units took 17hp+ on the 962 or whatever they used them on) and besides, the more mechanical parts you have spinning, the higher the cost and chance of breakage.

I'm not too worried on the looks thing, heck, my engine compartment would scare most people due to it being so ugly (unless zip-ties, duct-tape and electrical tape turn you on, LOL)