A Real M471? Options

[EdwardBlume]

Sure..... now your going to tell me that they built a steel roofed 914 with steel flares and calledit a 916! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[larryM]

"471" option was just a list of parts - could be built by anyone with the money

It sounds like you are saying that the M471 option and the 914-6 GT were synonymous? I don't think that's correct... What you said was indeed true for the GT, but I believe that the M471 option was not that. Check the German documentation that Andy posted earlier in the thread.

--DD

i stand corrected

- i had never seen Jeff's 1971 m471 dealer option document(s) before - one of these applies to 1972 model year cars

- the other March 1971 scan portion applies to “Competition Option Group 471” for models 914014 and-019 - whatever they are


fascinating -

after checking all the linked threads, it seems there is still no agreement among thee cognoscenti

- nor among the literary gurus who wrote all the "definitive" books & magazine articles since then

I'll take some solace in that my car was "documented" by its German TUV Kraftfahrzeugbrief (date May 1972 which specifically refernces the flares, etc "per letter from manufacturer"; (7x15 alloys were installed and TUV approved at an earlier pre-'72 date))

- no aftermarket chinese stuff, thank you

good thing we have Andy as the real German source on this stuff !!


I'll say again - just build your own - the 1971 parts list is clear, and so far as i can discern there was no cutoff date as to when a 471 must be built

- OP asked if it was "real" - if it has the required option parts, the answer is "yes"


... so it goes

[pete000]

It seems there were 914s built at the factory and shipped with the M471 options installed (labeled by many as Real M471 cars) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) and there were 914s retrofitted with the M471 optional parts by dealers and shops post delivery (labeled Kits) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I agree, no big difference other than one was built and shipped as a M471 optioned 914 and one was converted by shops and dealers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

My car has factory steel fenders and Fuchs with spacers. They were installed in CA back in the day. I would guess I can call my car a M471 Kit conversion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

I would call it "Real" M471 optional parts.

Now the infamous 914-6 GT is another story.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

IMHO

[larryM]

It is a flared six. It is not an M471 car. All of them had front and rear sway bars, and this car is missing the rear bar.

can we say that 471 cars all had rear anti-roll bars?

- the Dealer KIT m71 was after all, basically a street car with "a competition look" - that 3-option list did not mention any anti-roll bar options

Gusti wrote in 2005 on 914club.com: ? 914-6 with OEM sway bars factory installed?
“sway bars were a factory option (M404)” and the Johnson book doesn't say anything about antiroll bars at the M471, but DGVWPB says that antiroll bars (front and rear together) were optional at the M471 - then I reviewed my prize lists (1970 & 1971) - there were no antiroll bars available at the standard /6 - so it's very likely that the M404 option was available later (at least from 1973 on)

– imho we cannot say definitively that all "471" cars had sway bars and use that as a criterion for validating the 471 pedigree of any given -6 car that comes on the market

Cafe Racers, maybe.............

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[SirAndy]

can we say that 471 cars all had rear anti-roll bars?

No. They were optional equipment and not part of the basic m471 package. See the scan of the document i posted.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[larryM]

let's all get on the same "originality" page about 471's & GT's

- get your English version here NOW -
GT - 471 - Factory Options List

"Information regarding Porsche Vehicles Used for sports Purposes 911 S-914/6 from model 1970"; (print number 4890.20-200-03-72), 45 pages, , inclusive of racing car for GT-group 3 and group 4, 2nd edn 1972 (a.k.a. SporttechnischerLeitfaden or CompetitionPartsList 0)

a Dealer KIT "m471 option" on a stock 914-6 (specifically for Models 914014 and 914019 .. whatever those were?) - was a totally different animal from any of the many variants of the referenced "Competition Option Group 471" – a.k.a. GT - which were built selectively to order or preference from the SporttechnischerLeitfaden or the earlier Ersatzteilliste (Spare Parts List) for 914-6, Competition Type, dated Mar 1970, 6024.14

maybe we can get Andy to put that link up as a sticky?

none of these 3 lists ever mention or reference "471" or "m471" - (i have all 3) -

Germany 914 Club e.V. once had a list of all the various options cars they could identify, as of 2006 "AUFLISTUNG DER 914-6 "SPORT-KIT"

- I have it in pdf but the old link is no longer any good and i can't turn it up in Google - if Andy can turn it into an html document sticky that would be another good reference every time we start an "is it real" argument (and maybe quit beating each other up over it)

and whoever has it - i'd sure like to see that entire 1971 Dealer Bulletin 71/79 that is referenced in the partially scanned page that Bowlsby originally posted on another link

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[Dave_Darling]

If you still have the old address for the document, you might be able to go to http://www.archive.org and pull up a saved copy of it...

--DD

[SixerJ]

While sort of on the subject of M471's & GTs. pdf copy of GT Parts Manual can be found via the link for those that want a copy (1st time I have used the dropbox public link function so hopefully it works)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwa7vizbx3vmyuk/9...20List.pdf?dl=0

I agree it would be really great if we could collate all the documentation into a sticky with links to form an archive, Armano's site is a superb resource in many ways but the documentation section is not in a very useable format i.e. pdf for multipage manuals

If anyone wants the parts list in excel I have that also, I'd just need to clean it up a bit 1st as I'm using it for my project