 You can't turbocharge a 914, but if you could? |
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| ConeDodger |
 Jan 29 2015, 07:13 PM
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#1
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Apex killer!  Group: Members Posts: 23,552 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California 
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I had lunch and hung out with McMark and the Original Customs crew today and an interesting subject came up...
We've all heard the old joke about how you can't turbocharge a 914. In reality, it's been done many times. Mostly badly, but it's do-able. McMark's own car is a 1.7 turbo he built as a proof-of-concept and his build has worked so well, he practically daily drives it! I know most of you have no reference for what I'm about to say but I'll try to explain; driving a 2270 stroker TypeIV is a great big bowl full of fun. The flat torque-curve means you don't have to shift all the time, just put your foot down and go. No lug, just grunt! Driving McMark's 1.7 Turbo is like driving a 2270. That, and when I have driven it, it was only at about 6# of boost or less. Turn that up, and you've got a serious screamer on your hands... His execution is about the best I've ever seen (as per usual Original Customs fare). Yet, having very nicely proven the concept, McMark has only built one other turbo engine. What gives? You guys don't like the idea of a turbocharged 914? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Let's discuss this... |
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| SirAndy |
Jan 29 2015, 07:20 PM
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,602 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
I think McMark should sell a bolt on turbo kit that fits stock engines and runs with low boost for reliability.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
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| Garland |
Jan 29 2015, 07:23 PM
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#3
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Restoration Fanatic Group: Members Posts: 1,327 Joined: 8-January 04 From: ......Michigan...... Member No.: 1,535 Region Association: Upper MidWest
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jan 29 2015, 08:20 PM)  I think McMark should sell a bolt on turbo kit that fits stock engines and runs with low boost for reliability. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
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| ConeDodger |
Jan 29 2015, 07:36 PM
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#4
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,552 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) that's a good idea! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)
Who wants one? Group buy? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif) |
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| thelogo |
Jan 29 2015, 07:42 PM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,510 Joined: 6-April 10 Member No.: 11,572 Region Association: None |
I have my doubts about turbo and reliability in the same sentence
And a lot of guys have gone turbo , Subaru turbo w r x + s t I But I assume premium fuel is required And didnt the designers of the McLaren f1 specify that only a n.a engine could be used And said that turbos were undesirable due to ,heat , complex ity , nonlinear delivery of power+accelerated wear and tear etc. |
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| thelogo |
Jan 29 2015, 07:50 PM
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,510 Joined: 6-April 10 Member No.: 11,572 Region Association: None |
Here we go and I'm not against turbo ing
My dad had a 3000gt v r 4 and what a smoking engine pure launch power wow And I love the noble m12 ,British sports car with Ford turbo v6 ??? Why Gordon Murray insisted that the engine for this car be naturally aspirated to increase reliability and driver control. Turbochargers and superchargers increase power but they increase complexity and can decrease reliability as well as introducing an additional aspect of latency and loss of feedback. The ability of the driver to maintain maximum control of the engine is thus decreased. Murray initially approached Honda for a powerplant with 550 bhp (410 kW; 558 PS), 600 mm (23.6 in) block length and a total weight of 250 kg (551 lb), it should be derived from the Formula One powerplant in the then-dominating McLaren/Honda cars. When Honda refused, Isuzu, then planning an entry into Formula One, had a 3.5-litre V12 engine being tested in a Lotus chassis. The company was very interested in having the engine fitted into the F1. However, the designers wanted an engine with a proven design and a racing pedigree. |
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| thelogo |
Jan 29 2015, 07:53 PM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,510 Joined: 6-April 10 Member No.: 11,572 Region Association: None |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif)
Mcmark I think from what I 've heard around here You 've got proven designs and pedigree |
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| ConeDodger |
Jan 29 2015, 07:59 PM
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#8
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,552 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(thelogo @ Jan 29 2015, 05:53 PM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) Mcmark I think from what I 've heard around here You 've got proven designs and pedigree Actually, this is the point. McMark daily drives his. At least in his design, you can say turbocharged and reliability in the same sentence. His design is installed on a tired old 1.7 that he had hanging around the shop. We're talking about an engine he has counted on to get him to work for a couple years. Reliably. It's even been to WCR in Oregon I think? And not on a trailer. He (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) it there! |
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| SirAndy |
Jan 29 2015, 08:07 PM
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#9
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,602 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(thelogo @ Jan 29 2015, 05:42 PM) I have my doubts about turbo and reliability in the same sentence Your 3 posts can be summed up in one simple sentence: You missed the part where we've been talking about low boost ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) |
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| thelogo |
Jan 29 2015, 08:30 PM
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#10
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,510 Joined: 6-April 10 Member No.: 11,572 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jan 29 2015, 06:07 PM) QUOTE(thelogo @ Jan 29 2015, 05:42 PM) I have my doubts about turbo and reliability in the same sentence Your 3 posts can be summed up in one simple sentence: You missed the part where we've been talking about low boost ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Lower then the fan charger that blows 1-2 bar of air in the intake ...But is only activated at full throttle .. Heard about it hear also |
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| McMark |
Jan 29 2015, 08:39 PM
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#11
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
The difference is that an electric fan charger is bullshit, and a turbo is real. I push around 6-7psi of boost. I've put thousands of miles on the motor and while I've made tweaks and adjustments, I haven't dealt with any major issues so far. Actually, lets be clear, I haven't dealt with ANY issues so far. I just keep trying things because for me this is a learning project. I have to try new things and keep changing things so I know what works and what doesn't.
Next step, adjustable boost control. I'd like to try out 12psi, which is still relatively low boost. I'd also like to clarify, that this isn't a veiled attempt to sell more motors or turbo kits. Rob and I were talking, and I suggested that I doubted if anyone would ever buy a turbo motor or kit from me. Which is perfectly acceptable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But Rob was surprised, as are a few other people I've talked to, but I'm not sure why there is so little interest. |
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| Black22 |
Jan 29 2015, 08:42 PM
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#12
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 886 Joined: 1-November 07 From: Creswell, OR Member No.: 8,290 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
He did indeed drive it to WCR in the Dalles, OR.
I saw it with my own eyes. |
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| McMark |
Jan 29 2015, 08:47 PM
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#13
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Black22 @ Jan 29 2015, 06:42 PM) He did indeed drive it to WCR in the Dalles, OR. I saw it with my own eyes. That was 2 days after I fired it up for the first time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) |
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| ConeDodger |
Jan 29 2015, 08:56 PM
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#14
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,552 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(McMark @ Jan 29 2015, 06:39 PM) The difference is that an electric fan charger is bullshit, and a turbo is real. I push around 6-7psi of boost. I've put thousands of miles on the motor and while I've made tweaks and adjustments, I haven't dealt with any major issues so far. Actually, lets be clear, I haven't dealt with ANY issues so far. I just keep trying things because for me this is a learning project. I have to try new things and keep changing things so I know what works and what doesn't. Next step, adjustable boost control. I'd like to try out 12psi, which is still relatively low boost. I'd also like to clarify, that this isn't a veiled attempt to sell more motors or turbo kits. Rob and I were talking, and I suggested that I doubted if anyone would ever buy a turbo motor or kit from me. Which is perfectly acceptable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But Rob was surprised, as are a few other people I've talked to, but I'm not sure why there is so little interest. Yup... I'm stumped. I just don't get why people who want to stay 4 cylinder aren't trying this proven method. It's absolutely as tame as the original 1.7 with an evil (reliable) secret. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) |
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| SirAndy |
Jan 29 2015, 09:01 PM
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#15
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,602 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(McMark @ Jan 29 2015, 06:39 PM) I'd also like to clarify, that this isn't a veiled attempt to sell more motors or turbo kits. Rob and I were talking, and I suggested that I doubted if anyone would ever buy a turbo motor or kit from me. Which is perfectly acceptable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But Rob was surprised, as are a few other people I've talked to, but I'm not sure why there is so little interest. If i still had a /4 i would certainly be interested! Now, can we talk about a twin turbo setup for my 3.6? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) |
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| Krieger |
Jan 29 2015, 09:18 PM
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#16
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,693 Joined: 24-May 04 From: Santa Rosa CA Member No.: 2,104 Region Association: None
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Mark let me drive his car more than a year ago. It moves very very nicely! There is no way in heck you'd think that is a 1.7.
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| iamchappy |
Jan 29 2015, 09:18 PM
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#17
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It all happens so fast! Group: Members Posts: 4,893 Joined: 5-November 03 From: minnetonka, mn Member No.: 1,315 Region Association: Upper MidWest  |
Just drop a 930 engine in it and your good to go. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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| jim_hoyland |
Jan 29 2015, 09:28 PM
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#18
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Get that VIN ? Group: Members Posts: 9,256 Joined: 1-May 03 From: Sunset Beach, CA Member No.: 643 Region Association: Southern California
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Haven't there been some off-the-shelf turbo kits in the past; perhaps a current member or two remember.
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| McMark |
Jan 29 2015, 09:32 PM
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
Yeah, there was at least one. It stopped being produced for.....
Lack of interest. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) |
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| warpig |
Jan 29 2015, 09:49 PM
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 290 Joined: 2-August 10 From: Portland OR Member No.: 12,002 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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QUOTE(McMark @ Jan 29 2015, 06:47 PM) QUOTE(Black22 @ Jan 29 2015, 06:42 PM) He did indeed drive it to WCR in the Dalles, OR. I saw it with my own eyes. That was 2 days after I fired it up for the first time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) I rode around in it for the parade laps. SUPER FUN (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif) Thanks McMark |
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