You can't turbocharge a 914, but if you could? Options

[oldschool]

OK I want one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[G e o r g e]

The only "kit" I can remember was the one Jake Designed , built and tested, but when the 5K bolt on upgrade was announced. the interested parties disappeared.

I need to look over at your build thread to see Pictures of the install, I'm assuming no cutting involved in your setup?

At the right price a kit makes perfect since , when you can pick up running 1.7 and 1.8 motors quite cheap bolt on the kit and go. and have 140hp + or - (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Chris Pincetich]

I'm saving my $$ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
I can go turbo after I fix about 10 other things. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
...which keeps depleting the $$.

The pics I saw looked like a pretty short run from turbo, intercooler, and intake was achieved. I have a "EuroRace" header, and have seen turbo pics of this design, but with the turbo at the end of the 4->1 collector. That run seems longer than what McMark built.

The kit would likely have an ECU and coil on plug, so costs are not insignificant.

Keep up the great work (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[messix]

so how could this be adapted to a L-jet 1.8?

what would be scrapped and would be saved?

what would run this as far as ign and ecu f/I?

could this be used with ssi 1.7 h/e & bursch collector ?

how much do you project this "kit" would cost?

[rick 918-S]

Mark, Post a link to your thread. I think we need a refresher.

Couple things I'm not sure are in your thread. Did you ever dyno test it to see what the old 1.7 is putting out now? Are you happy with where the project is now? And have you ever thought about what a kit would run? And what could a guy expect to get in terms of hp from a stock engine with a low blow kit?

[Mueller]

I have my doubts about turbo and reliability in the same sentence


And a lot of guys have gone turbo , Subaru turbo w r x + s t I


But I assume premium fuel is required


And didnt the designers of the McLaren f1 specify that only a n.a engine could be used

And said that turbos were undesirable due to ,heat , complex ity , nonlinear delivery of power+accelerated wear and tear etc.

You need to get out more.....tons of factory turbocharged cars that have driven hundreds of thousands of miles are still being driven..daily...I have one! Tons of aftermarket turbo systems installed and driven everyday!

Our daily, a '98 Volvo T5 high pressure turbo...not one single part of the turbo system has failed and it has close to 170K miles on it...

Gee...the McLaren P1, you know one of the most bad ass new supercar uses 2 turbos!

An all out race car like an F1 cannot be compared to a street car, you look silly even trying it...oh yea, the newest F1 cars are turbocharged by the way

Anti-turbo people either never owned one and heard "stories" from other owners that are hack mechanics or if they do own a turbocharged car, the failures are from a bad/hack owner/mechanic.

[McMark]

so how could this be adapted to a L-jet 1.8?

what would be scrapped and would be saved?

what would run this as far as ign and ecu f/I?

could this be used with ssi 1.7 h/e & bursch collector ?

how much do you project this "kit" would cost?

Mark, Post a link to your thread. I think we need a refresher.

Couple things I'm not sure are in your thread. Did you ever dyno test it to see what the old 1.7 is putting out now? Are you happy with where the project is now? And have you ever thought about what a kit would run? And what could a guy expect to get in terms of hp from a stock engine with a low blow kit?

I used the following:
A core 1.7 engine with good compression, but not new by any means
My microsquirt FI setup with coil on plug.
A KKK K03 knockoff turbo
A setrab intercooler
Custom exhaust built using 1.8 'log style' exhaust

It's a bolt in setup, but only reuses cooling tins, and intake path (throttle body to heads).

I haven't dyno'd it, but I can tell you the HP numbers would be deceiving. It's the torque from a turbo that makes it fun. A quick spooling, low boost turbo makes boost almost instantly and so the turbo doesn't 'come on', it just drives like a big motor.

I am completely happy. Like I said previously, I don't need to change a thing, but I'm gonna keep tinkering.

These setups are a lot of work. Expecting something in the $5k range is appropriate. But keep in mind that with this setup you're getting modern fuel injection, not just HP. Spend $5000 on a 2056 and you still need to make the engine run (exhaust, ignition, fuel). This setup kind of takes the engine out of the equation. Modern, reliable FI. Coil on plug. And turbo. In a setup that you can swap from motor to motor.

More details- http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=211954

[Mueller]

I've read all of Marks thread as well as Ottos(?) and Ed Morrows threads from way back, always liked the idea of a turbo Type IV

Some rambling thoughts:

Pros:

There are few proven designs to take inspiration from.

For fuel and ignition control, Megasquirt has been proven to be reliable and very cost effective..have more money to burn, opt for a different EFI package.

eBay bought Chinese turbochargers have been proven to be cost effective and work.

Used turbochargers can be found for not much money.

Seems like there should be no reason a turbo kit should require cutting into the chassis so that if one wants the car could easily be turned back into stock

Cons:

No dyno runs..people want to see before and after results...at least an after result!

The market for a turbo kit is getting smaller all the time....it seems people are removing their Type IV and doing some other conversion on a weekly basis..

If based on the 1.7 d-jet, 1.8 people will have to source some different parts which will increase cost and frustration.

Not everyone wants a programmable FI system, if it could be truly plug and play that might ease some folks concerns.

eBay turbos again...not always reliable even for a brand new part, a few car mags have seen gains of 40 or more HP by swapping out the ebay/Chinese clone turbo for genuine brand turbo all things being equal.

Used turbos are used...lots of choices and nobody wants to buy the wrong part. Luckily it is an item that can rebuilt without too much investment.



******************************

I'd like to see more cars done, and depending on price I might be interested in such a thing since I already have a megasquirt (2 of them actually)

[ConeDodger]

I'd also like to clarify, that this isn't a veiled attempt to sell more motors or turbo kits. Rob and I were talking, and I suggested that I doubted if anyone would ever buy a turbo motor or kit from me. Which is perfectly acceptable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But Rob was surprised, as are a few other people I've talked to, but I'm not sure why there is so little interest.

If i still had a /4 i would certainly be interested!

Now, can we talk about a twin turbo setup for my 3.6?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif) wait... You want to take evil fast and see what it feels like squared? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[ConeDodger]

OK I want one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

You sir will need a note from your doctor saying it's ok before McMark can take your deposit! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[ConeDodger]

When I wrote the original post for this thread, I was just wondering out loud why there wasn't more interest. Seems there is at least some. This concerns me... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
My car is number 11 on the Original Customs project list. I don't want that to slip back (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

So, move along folks... Nothing to see here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)

[ThePaintedMan]

I would definitely consider a turbo from McMark if offered in "kit" form. I have access to a few 1.7s and 1.8s and the cost to rebuild one as stock is one of the reasons why I'm considering going to a Suby - more power with modern features for about the same (if not less) money. McMark's turbo setup would offer a similar, albeit a little less power alternative for folks. And the BEST part is even if you did blow up the motor, you can swap in another $300 1.7 or 1.8 and transfer over all of his components and be back on the road in a weekend.

Do it Mark - I dare ya! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Mark Henry]

I'd also like to clarify, that this isn't a veiled attempt to sell more motors or turbo kits. Rob and I were talking, and I suggested that I doubted if anyone would ever buy a turbo motor or kit from me. Which is perfectly acceptable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But Rob was surprised, as are a few other people I've talked to, but I'm not sure why there is so little interest.

And I'd have to say you are right. They would never sell in the numbers needed to make the investment of buying stock. To bring the cost down you would have to sell a bunch of sets to get a break on your costs. You risk the chance of being stuck with systems that do not sell, at least not fast enough. A $5K price point you will only get a few takers at best. The 914 and Type4 is market is waining, the new generations don't want a car they want an iphone.

Another thing is you are having success because of the 1.7 smaller head bore. If you were to offer a kit it would be short order before someone mounted it on an unsuitable engine. If the power level is not enough then they will crank the boost. When it failed they would blame you personally.

Yep I'm being a downer, but I think Mark already knows these points just by his statement.

[bulitt]

I have my doubts about turbo and reliability in the same sentence


And a lot of guys have gone turbo , Subaru turbo w r x + s t I


But I assume premium fuel is required


And didnt the designers of the McLaren f1 specify that only a n.a engine could be used

And said that turbos were undesirable due to ,heat , complex ity , nonlinear delivery of power+accelerated wear and tear etc.

Most Diesel Locomotives pulling trains have turbos. They run for millions of miles and have a useful life of decades. Ok, diesel, I get it. But extremely reliable.

[914werke]

CON: No Heat!

[mbseto]

This really sounds like getting at least some benefit of an engine swap without doing an engine swap. Plus I get to keep some originality to the car. Staying air-cooled has some appeal to me (if I understand this, it just adds an oil intercooler?). Sounds like there's still some question as to whether this would be less money than a swap or comparable... Contingent on that last question, I'm interested...

[gryphon68]

But I assume premium fuel is required


And didnt the designers of the McLaren f1 specify that only a n.a engine could be used

And said that turbos were undesirable due to ,heat , complexity , nonlinear delivery of power+accelerated wear and tear etc.

You could skip the Premium and go straight for the E85 tune . . . .

The philosophy of cars has changed quite a bit in the last two decades since the McLaren F1. See the new P1.

Add batteries and an electric motor for even more heat and complexity. It seems to fix the whole non-linear power delivery with electrics providing "torque fill" while the engine catches up to the demand of the little pedal on the right.

[McMark]

CON: No Heat!

Working on that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)

[r_towle]

marty built a kit back in the day and if I recall from the pictures it was hanging off the stock heat exhangers to keep the OEM heat in place.

There is a paper article about it that someone posted up here at least once showing marty in his sandles working under the car.

I think his kit was at something like 4-6 lbs of boost.

Mark,
Do you have a simple way to cut a notch in the cylinders and heads for a piano wire, ala the 930 for sealing it?
Rich

[monkeyboy]

One I get my Microsquirt up and running it is next on my list.

I want to throw a wrench in things and hang and Aerocharger off the end of my heater boxes. I know it's a bit more money, but it's oil less.