You can't turbocharge a 914, but if you could? Options

[r_towle]

what are the pro/cons of either a jenvy throttle body, or modifying the intake manifolds to accept injectors (like SirAndy did)

Seems getting the injector closer to the valve would be better in the long run....just curious if anyone has evidence.

rich

[oldschool]

OK I want one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

You sir will need a note from your doctor saying it's ok before McMark can take your deposit! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) yup

[oldschool]

OK with all of the smart pep's that hang out here someone could maybe help Mark out with this project.....maybe a special GB to get the ball rolling. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

[DRPHIL914]

The difference is that an electric fan charger is bullshit, and a turbo is real. I push around 6-7psi of boost. I've put thousands of miles on the motor and while I've made tweaks and adjustments, I haven't dealt with any major issues so far. Actually, lets be clear, I haven't dealt with ANY issues so far. I just keep trying things because for me this is a learning project. I have to try new things and keep changing things so I know what works and what doesn't.

Next step, adjustable boost control. I'd like to try out 12psi, which is still relatively low boost.

I'd also like to clarify, that this isn't a veiled attempt to sell more motors or turbo kits. Rob and I were talking, and I suggested that I doubted if anyone would ever buy a turbo motor or kit from me. Which is perfectly acceptable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But Rob was surprised, as are a few other people I've talked to, but I'm not sure why there is so little interest.

Yup... I'm stumped. I just don't get why people who want to stay 4 cylinder aren't trying this proven method. It's absolutely as tame as the original 1.7 with an evil (reliable) secret. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

even though i am on the east coast, i am seriously considering this, and i too am amazed that more would not consider it. i have a 2.0 and am very interested in seeing this on a 2.0(1911) rather than building a 2270. i know my motor needs a refershing and would seriously consider shipping it out there to be done. or maybe a cross country drive...... the plane ticket home would be about the same as the shipping cost i suppose; (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[euro911]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[nein14]

Mine has been driving and reliable for 10 years and thousands of miles

[Maltese Falcon]

marty built a kit back in the day and if I recall from the pictures it was hanging off the stock heat exhangers to keep the OEM heat in place.

There is a paper article about it that someone posted up here at least once showing marty in his sandles working under the car.

I think his kit was at something like 4-6 lbs of boost.

Mark,
Do you have a simple way to cut a notch in the cylinders and heads for a piano wire, ala the 930 for sealing it?
Rich

Rich, you had to bring up the sandals...like Hot tub time machine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
And you can't turbocharge a 911 either !
It only took the factory some years honing their boosty knowledge on their force fed 917 program , then applied it to their flagship=930.
Meanwhile in the 70's there were 3 go to shops for 914 turbos: Crown , MSDS and AK Miller ent.
Crown was mail order only, MSDS was mail order / turnkey installation, and AK Miller was installation only. The first 2 shops used Rajay FB40 Rajay turbos, Miller was a Garret air-research shop. Everyone had their favorites. We built MSDS bolt on kits until the late 1980's
In this photo circa 6/76, for VW Greats magazine our 2.0 turbo (7psi) is standing in the Irwindale (real 1,320') sand pit. In the foreground is the first 930 (magazine car) into the USA. The editor Jay Amestoy could not catch us in that car. Turns out the 930 waste gate was faulty in its open cycle, not able to catch the 914 running @ 15.4 / 95 mph in the quarter. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Marty

[thelogo]

I have my doubts about turbo and reliability in the same sentence


And a lot of guys have gone turbo , Subaru turbo w r x + s t I


But I assume premium fuel is required


And didnt the designers of the McLaren f1 specify that only a n.a engine could be used

And said that turbos were undesirable due to ,heat , complex ity , nonlinear delivery of power+accelerated wear and tear etc.

You need to get out more.....tons of factory turbocharged cars that have driven hundreds of thousands of miles are still being driven..daily...I have one! Tons of aftermarket turbo systems installed and driven everyday!

Our daily, a '98 Volvo T5 high pressure turbo...not one single part of the turbo system has failed and it has close to 170K miles on it...

Gee...the McLaren P1, you know one of the most bad ass new supercar uses 2 turbos!

An all out race car like an F1 cannot be compared to a street car, you look silly even trying it...oh yea, the newest F1 cars are turbocharged by the way

Anti-turbo people either never owned one and heard "stories" from other owners that are hack mechanics or if they do own a turbocharged car, the failures are from a bad/hack owner/mechanic.

Just saying f1 is faster ,lighter

Middle seat position , real clutch

Supposedly worth 10 x more then p.1

And yeh I do need to get out more

At a car show recently a guy had a twin turbo old ads
Chevy pick up , thing ran like a p-38 lightning

Gordon Murray insisted that the engine for this car be naturally aspirated to increase reliability and driver control. Turbochargers and superchargers increase power but they increase complexity and can decrease reliability as well as introducing an additional aspect of latency and loss of feedback. The ability of the driver to maintain maximum control of the engine is thus decreased. Murray initially approached Honda for a powerplant with 550 bhp (410 kW; 558 PS), 600 mm (23.6 in) block length and a total weight of 250 kg (551 lb), it should be derived from the Formula One powerplant in the then-dominating McLaren/Honda cars. When Honda refused, Isuzu, then planning an entry into Formula One, had a 3.5-litre V12 engine being tested in a Lotus chassis. The company was very interested in having the engine fitted into the F1. However, the designers wanted an engine with a proven design and a racing pedigree.[6]

[thelogo]

Don't increase my tension

lQzTLEzU6e4

And can you can you clarify exactly what effect Turbo supercharged ing has on compression. As in low compression , low boost ,high octane And huge intercooler

Is that the kind of combo that works well together ???

[Maltese Falcon]

Barrel to cylinder head flame rings, there are matching machined grooves cut into both cylinder heads and barrels . These were made at Aasco Machining. Ive held 21 psi boost with this set up.This design can be applied to the type 4 as well,

[Maltese Falcon]

Compression ratio chart, or:
What happens to your total CR
(yield) when applying forced induction to your static CR (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)
Sorry for the old scan quality

[jim_hoyland]

Is MSDS going to revisit this product for a 914 ?....

[Mark Henry]

At what point do you have to twin plug the turbo engine?
In a N/A six once you hit over 9.5:1 CR you are getting near the limit of single plug.
Twin plugging and fire rings would add another dimension to the turbo build.

This gets back to if boost levels are adjustable someone will push the limit, overboost and likely blame the builder.

[mepstein]

Compression ratio chart, or:
What happens to your total CR
(yield) when applying forced induction to your static CR (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)
Sorry for the old scan quality

thank you. that explains a lot.

[r_towle]

Barrel to cylinder head flame rings, there are matching machined grooves cut into both cylinder heads and barrels . These were made at Aasco Machining. Ive held 21 psi boost with this set up.This design can be applied to the type 4 as well,

I just cannot see that.
Do you have any better pictures of that ring in detail?

[Mark Henry]

Matching groove cut into head and cylinder, the fire ring is solid.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/rennlist.com-26-1422723516.1.jpg)

[PotterPorsche]

I believe same topic. Not a fan of bernie bergmann but i will give credit to the idea. Used stock heaters
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...202113&st=0

[Mueller]

Matching groove cut into head and cylinder, the fire ring is solid.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/rennlist.com-26-1422723516.1.jpg)

Stuff like that is fine for a few one-off installs...it starts to get impractical and expensive.

I guess one could have a "basic" kit for with a max psi limit...

Then have other options for more boost...of course the money to HP ratio can get skewered really fast and it will get hard to justify considering all our other options if all we want is a certain about of HP for the vehicle.

[Randal]

Moggy, over in the paddock section, has been hard racing (Rally) a 914 4 with a supercharger for years. He had special groves machined into his heads /barrels that seal without any issues. Of course Moggy has done a bunch of other modifications to make it all work, but it does.

Same thing could be done with a turbo, which would make an effective setup and then one could run higher boost levels.

Britain Smith has build a big time Type IV turbo motor for his 912. It works and puts out serious power.

I've thought long and hard about building an effective turbo motor. 300Hp out of a 2.0 would be excellent and would compete with the fast group with SCCA XP, in a 914, but it's likely a nose bleed from the start as no one has done a Type IV before.

FYI SCCA screws anyone using CC to compete.

If I was still going to do it I'd visit CB performance. They've build a huge number of hot turbo Type 1 motors for sand rails, etc. They have the experience and parts, likely a bunch of them adaptable to a type IV. They say 300hp is the low end of output they work with, but guessing this would be on larger motors.

It'd make sense to take Mark down there on the same trip, figure out what could be done, secure the parts and have him do it.

BTW their Type I turbo motors are reasonable.

Hi Mike. Nice to see you back on the forum.

[Maltese Falcon]

Is MSDS going to revisit this product for a 914 ?....

Jim,
My facility has the knowledge, skill and all machinery to put kits together.
I would be in the market to offer any tuning shop/aftermarket parts co., a contract job quotation on a small run (min.25) of their turbo kit specific tubing .Tubing; intake into/ out of compressor, intake charge pipes (including intercooler piping), hot side into turbine (including headers), turbine exit +muffler, waste gate tie-in.
This is about 85% of a kit...the rest is packaging off the shelf items, and a tuning package. Those items would be packaged + provided by the turbo kit seller.
Simple as that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Marty