Carbs...or Fuel Injection?, I'm confused Options

[Woody]

Carbs suck ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


FI = better gas mileage, more power, starts anywhere at the turn of the key
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

PS: Yes, the stock D-jet and L-Jet have limitations when you try to use them on highly modified engines. In which case you should replace them with a modern FI system.

PPS: Carbs belong in the museum ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[BeatNavy]

Should we ban the carb vs FI debate?

It messes with the mojo of the team

While we are at, shall we ban the V-8 conversion debate, the Suby conversion debate, and the debate whether 914s should be left stock or not? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Don't forget the "why would you ever buy from AA?" debate as well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Mark Henry]

Carbs suck ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


FI = better gas mileage, more power, starts anywhere at the turn of the key
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

PS: Yes, the stock D-jet and L-Jet have limitations when you try to use them on highly modified engines. In which case you should replace them with a modern FI system.

PPS: Carbs belong in the museum ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

The "more power" part I disagree with, mostly because carb engines can run a way more radical cam.

I've done both and they both have there place on the T4 and /6.

And I agree that most who dislike carbs never knew how to set them up correctly in the first place.
Funny as it's very much like the guys who never understood FI......

[funk]

I think all the old -6 engines says it all. like the 911 and 914-6 they have carbs.
people say carbs is ancient technology but some of the 911s had carbs on them till when? the 80s?
Even so the new duel fi does look desirable especially when its all set up right.
and here is a little story.I bought a 1.7 that had carbs but I don't think the cam was ever changed and of coarse it ran like a 3 legged dog.
So realistically its all about the motor set up and what you want to do with the car.
daily driver----stock fi
cone dodgers----?either or?
track or street racer-------carbs

[stugray]

I think all the old -6 engines says it all. like the 911 and 914-6 they have carbs.
people say carbs is ancient technology but some of the 911s had carbs on them till when? the 80s?
Even so the new duel fi does look desirable especially when its all set up right.
and here is a little story.I bought a 1.7 that had carbs but I don't think the cam was ever changed and of coarse it ran like a 3 legged dog.
So realistically its all about the motor set up and what you want to do with the car.
daily driver----stock fi
cone dodgers----?either or?
track or street racer-------carbs

I always respond to this arguement with the following:

"#1 MOST famous Porsche 914, ever: Carbs or FI?"

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i366.photobucket.com-10819-1422975122.1.jpg)

[Hiptobesquare]

Hey Guys,
I'm about 6 months into searching and researching these cars(914) and from what I gather...they were designed for fuel injection and should have fuel injection to work properly. I've read the warnings of poor engine runnings and bad gas mileage and all...but I still see SO many great cars that I've passed up because they are carbed. Can someone give me a little context in how to think about this stuff? I'm not a gear head and don't have enough knowledge to know why and why not. Anybody? I know what George at Auto Atlanta thinks....what about the rest of you guys? I'm a newbie and need your sage advice. Thoughts guys?
Thanks for any clarity or perspective.

Jim

if the car is solid, no or little rust and you like it, and you will know when you like it. buy it. if your not living in a mountain area traversing the range every weekend no sweat. I bought my 2.0 from Colorado springs, i live at sea level, guess what it ran lean, $95 jet kit, back in business. if your going north of 2.0 you will want to probably carb but if its a stocker and clean retro it back to original FI.

[Dave_Darling]

I think all the old -6 engines says it all. like the 911 and 914-6 they have carbs.
people say carbs is ancient technology but some of the 911s had carbs on them till when? the 80s?

The last carbureted US-spec 911 was the 1971 911T. In 1969 the 911S and 911E had already gone to MFI, and the T went to MFI in 72. In 74, all US-bound 911s had CIS (Bosch K-Jetronic FI), then they went to Motronic (basically a massively-updated L-jetronic) in 1984.

I think that the 911T stayed carbureted in Europe until 73, but I'm not sure about that. I don't believe any later 911s were carbed.


...Note that the six-cylinder 911 engine is just slightly different than the four-cylinder 914 engine...

--DD

[rgolia]

My 914 has about 140,000 miles on it..all of which are mine. The first 70,000 miles where with a stock fi 2.0 engine. ran great until various components had issues and I spent time on the side of the highway. I then converted to carbs on the stock engine for the next 70,00 miles. It ran ok, but not as good as with the fi, but it never left me on the side of the road. recently I rebuilt the engine with a carb cam and what a difference, way better than the stock engine with fi. If i had to do it again I would probably venture into aftermarket fi but I would have to make sure I had a mechanic close by to deal with issues.

[monkeyboy]

If you are starting from scratch on the intake, aftermarket FI.

Weber and Dellorto carbs are nice, but based on designs from the 50's.
Stock FI is from the 70's

Why not update to technology that isn't over 40 years old?

[Dave_Darling]

Stock FI is from the 60s at the latest--there were almost no changes from the 67 Type III D-jet to the 76 914 2.0 D-jet.

And of course, it was based on the ElectroJector FI that was first offered in 1958... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

--DD

[Mueller]

If you are starting from scratch on the intake, aftermarket FI.

Weber and Dellorto carbs are nice, but based on designs from the 50's.
Stock FI is from the 70's

Why not update to technology that isn't over 40 years old?

And to further muddy up the waters....

Common plenum or ITB's ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


I'd like a pair of webers, but too costly for a complete setup new and used is..well used and good chance worn out or missing stuff.

[monkeyboy]

I am running a Microsquirt setup based on the stock mainfolds, plenum, and throttle body.

[Mueller]

I am running a Microsquirt setup based on the stock mainfolds, plenum, and throttle body.

I've run Megasquirt and a LINK EFI using stock FI parts...worked fine, cheaper than ITB's, but don't look as cool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[naro914]

So let me relay a recent experience:
Huey has been sitting on the lift since early November. Not moving, not started...under a cover. About 3 weeks ago I replaced the throttle cable and cleaned up some of the underside. I reached in the car, popped it into neutral and turned the key. It started right up. Never got in it, didn't pump the gas, didn't say any prayers, no swearing, no "come on baby...come on...". Just started right up. No drama.
Stock FI (ok, 3.2 liter /6 stock FI, but still FI)

Papa Smurf, with over 350 hp is FI too.

Just sayin'....

[monkeyboy]

I am running a Microsquirt setup based on the stock mainfolds, plenum, and throttle body.

I've run Megasquirt and a LINK EFI using stock FI parts...worked fine, cheaper than ITB's, but don't look as cool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No it doesn't but I was looking for simplicity, and to cut down on some intake noise while I was in there. ITB's or dual carbs get annoying after about 100 miles.

[somd914]

If you are starting from scratch on the intake, aftermarket FI.

Weber and Dellorto carbs are nice, but based on designs from the 50's.
Stock FI is from the 70's

Why not update to technology that isn't over 40 years old?

You got me thinking about my future engine rebuild (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Why stick with an expensive late 60's designed, low output, noisy Type IV?

Think I'll go Suby 2.5 liter, same as my Legacy GT - HP and torque numbers both nearing 300. Modern, powerful, and maintenance free (compared to a Type IV).

Where do you draw the line on modern upgrades? That's a slippery slope.

But back to the OP... Hopefully after reading all this he will realize that carbs/FI is a contentious topic for some reason, but also realize that there are plenty of teeners out there that run well/poorly on both carbs and FI. I think we can all agree there are more critical issues such as rust that should determine whether or not to even consider purchasing a specific teener; carbs should not automatically disqualify a teener that is on the market.

[Mueller]

No it doesn't but I was looking for simplicity, and to cut down on some intake noise while I was in there. ITB's or dual carbs get annoying after about 100 miles.

Good point on the noise, that could get old after a bit!

[monkeyboy]

If you are starting from scratch on the intake, aftermarket FI.

Weber and Dellorto carbs are nice, but based on designs from the 50's.
Stock FI is from the 70's

Why not update to technology that isn't over 40 years old?

You got me thinking about my future engine rebuild (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Why stick with an expensive late 60's designed, low output, noisy Type IV?

Think I'll go Suby 2.5 liter, same as my Legacy GT - HP and torque numbers both nearing 300. Modern, powerful, and maintenance free (compared to a Type IV).

Where do you draw the line on modern upgrades? That's a slippery slope.

But back to the OP... Hopefully after reading all this he will realize that carbs/FI is a contentious topic for some reason, but also realize that there are plenty of teeners out there that run well/poorly on both carbs and FI. I think we can all agree there are more critical issues such as rust that should determine whether or not to even consider purchasing a specific teener; carbs should not automatically disqualify a teener that is on the market.

You draw the line where you deem it. I can't decide that for anyone, just trying to provide all the options.

Me personally I want a car that retains the feel of original without all the annoying habits of carbs with no chokes, or FI that can be difficult to find parts for. But that was my assessment. And I didn't want to cut my car for a radiator.

In the case of my dad's car, we built a small block Ford that shows over 400 hp to the ground, idles with a rumble, and starts with no foot on the throttle as soon as you tap the key. FI can be great, I couldn't have tuned carbs to do that.

Like I said, the info is out there. Make the right decision for you and go with it.

[oldschool]

Just remember...it's who you know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[ClayPerrine]

No it doesn't but I was looking for simplicity, and to cut down on some intake noise while I was in there. ITB's or dual carbs get annoying after about 100 miles.

Try a 914-6 with MFI and K&N watershields for 1000 miles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


I know how to setup carbs, and I know how to work on FI. Carbs are ancient technology. Very simple, and easy. FI is still evolving, and gets better every day.

Betty's 74 1.8 has 370,000 miles on it, and it is still driven to work every day by her. Yes, it has problems, but that is to be expected in a 41 year old car. But it starts and idles like it's supposed to, and has smooth power delivery.

Bottom line. I will use FI over carbs any day. But pick what you want to maintain, because these are old cars and you are going to have to do maintenance if you want to drive them.