Flat 8 ? I've seen pics of the Lind one, how about a running one here! Options

[Mueller]

If VW made a flat 8 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Brazilian Flat 8

I know, not a Type IV, I would think it would be close enough to a Type I to be done the same way?

[screenguy914]

What are the odds the modified crank will break before the rings have broken in?

No puedo hablar Espanol, pero su piso ocho cigüeñal pudo ser grande

[damesandhotrods]

Custom for the sake of being custom, it’s great if you want to empress strangers. But there are cheaper more reliable ways of making horsepower…

[rick 918-S]

I really like it! Rich..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[Mike Bellis]

I think T4 heads would have been easier.

[VaccaRabite]

Custom for the sake of being custom, it’s great if you want to empress strangers. But there are cheaper more reliable ways of making horsepower…

If we all took that stance, we would all just dump chevy small blocks in our cars and be done with it.

Zach

[dlestep]

"908 firing orders (taken from a Bill Oursler article).
1--1,8,2,6,4,5,3,7; bad vibrations with 135 or 225 degrees between opposite pistons
2--1,5,2,7,4,8,3,6; better, but still had vibrations
3--1,7,2,8,5,3,6,4; final version that eliminated vibrations; a true boxer with 180 degrees between opposite pistons."

The first one, above, cracked frames and screwed-up electronics.

I don't habla, so does anyone know what the firing order was, or did they even say?
I just noticed the writing on the valve covers.
Is that:
position
5678
1234
or
3568
7124

Damn, I'm all confused now. Nevermind.

[veekry9]

This is drawn as an an interlaced crank.10 main bearings


This is drawn as an inserted crank,1 4cyl crank in the middle,the other split and joined at each end.


This is drawn as 2 4cyl cranks joined end to end 90* apart,the successful orientation.



This engine ran the Indy 500.Cosworth Vega heads,probably AlSi bores.2 x 4cyl Vertex magnetos.(Edit:03/08/15:Nope,Not Indy.Pocono 500 1977)

F8 recalled
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...amp;hl=beck+gt1
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...2522&st=100

Simple.More displacement needed.
Desired a less expensive way than buying a production engine.
This engine is very nice,like what Emerson Fittipaldi raced as a 3.2L. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Brazil,Sweden,places it's been done.
For your T1 super-duty case needs:
http://www.autolinea.com.br/


Part:
Weld or machine
(1) a crank,2 flat 4s 90* apart
(2) crankcases,T1,T4,Corvair,or custom.(Custom Corvair lost foam casting)
(3) cylinder heads,pushrod or ohc,air or water cooled.(kiss,vvt twincam,pushrod)
(4) Nickies to 8 x 96mm x 76mm =4.4L(Big bore,short stroke and deck height)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyRBbGb2UDA


yeah,4v pushrod.

a 4 cylinder.

Actually ran.

There is no easier way to build the F8 than the Brazilian's method.kiss.

What to put it in:
http://scootermcrad.blogspot.ca/2014/07/po...conception.html
/
(edit:03/16/16)


Found the pix,'70-80s experimental,by Arao/Scat,pushrod 4V T1,
You can see the rocker arrangement and twin rockershafts.
The rod pushes the primary rocker,which simultaneously acts upon the secondary rocker.
The spring loads are lighter as the valves are smaller and lighter too.
Titanium valves and retainers and roller rockers may allow a higher rev band.
That was ,as I recall,was their failing in the '70s.As well as the price.
/

[veekry9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXKcpbFF7WI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0TFrJv9CO8


Beetle BIMOTOR called the 'Jamaro' first test.

Translation from the video:
"Excellent, the pressure is great, Today is March 19th, 2009, and tomorrow, we will be recorded for the show,
'Auto Esporte'. Good work Marco, Good work Arlindo"

Marcelo Henrique:
This is what Fittipaldi drove?

CRITICAL POINT,PONTOCRITICO:
The idea of ​​creating large engines with smaller units of existing parts is not new and that engine began to be conceived in the late 60s.
But since then, it has been found that in practice for this thesis is not so easy. What is originally a small and low-performance engine,
it does not generate sufficient lubrication and too hot in the last cylinder block with the increase. Then the resistance and serviceability of the air VW contradicts with increasing size.
Then begin a series of adjustments that begin to change everything in the original engine, creating almost a new engine and is not the original design intent
Keep parts and the original propeller profile is viable to the 6-cylinder design, because in the case of the 8-cylinder plus overheats, it lacks lubrication critically.
They walked considering transforming the 8-cylinder engine in aircraft design because with the cylinders exposed things get easier, but not so this was being very easy.
As the old American adage, free lunch is something that does not exist ...

 Gabriel Aiello:
you would an engine of these on order?

 T-Bar Auto Doc:
This is a custom flat 8 built in Brazil. The prototype was two VW engines (each 1500cc) built together to form one fire breathing monster known as the the 'Jamaro'.



Have a close look at those parts.Floating wrist pins.Gas or TIG welded heads.


Yes,this is it,the 'Jamaro of Brazil'.
Marco has a battery and pump,checking oil flow(trans fluid).



low-res photo,note cut and shut welds on case.How they dunnit,a few years ago.
Resize the welded crank and rod journals to fit the remachined cases post welding.
Main journals and bearings larger than stock.Means facing and line-boring the cases.
Any tig-man could do this in 2015.Weld a set of cases to 0.005"?Sure.Build a set of jigs and oven weld in steps,checking all the way.


Emerson Fittipaldi's 1970 3.2L mid-engine Beetle.Ganged engine.


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/archive/i...t-353826--.html
http://mestrejoca.blogspot.ca/2009/03/as-e...tor-jamaro.html
A cast crank?Sure.

/

(edit:09/10/16):
http://forum.hotcampinas.com/showthread.ph...00cc-8cil-boxer

[

"Perhaps one of the boldest projects involving engines will be talked about now in MotorSS during the 60's and 70 national motoring wind was in the stern, official teams of assemblers,
emergence of new categories, workshops creating their own cars and engines.
And in 1969, the brothers Jairo and Jair Amaro built a unique engine. A VW air 8-cylinder boxer with 3000 cc, may be the only motor 8 cylinders with these settings in the world!
In fact he was born in 69 with the addition of 2 1,300 cc blocks, and this one camshaft (which are actually 2 P3 soldiers in one piece), and a crankshaft that turns the eight lying cylinders to feed 2 webber 48.
The history of this car actually is this conceptual engine. In the story, the designers put him in a car race formula style. This engine came to walk in 70 years, but a chronic problem of lack of oil pressure
wore a little his image and many of its competitors at that time had stronger engines, made this engine was left aside. Amaro brothers built in the decade of 60-70s over 25 race cars Formula Vee,
and even the sports car maker Puma became interested in the VW 8-cylinder engine, but missed. Brothers Fitipaldi also set up a Volkswagen Beetle Bimotor, but its manufacture was totally different from Jamaro.
In 2004, Paul Trevisan, businessman Passo Fundo and passionate about motoring acquired the engine in the city of Guaratingueta, SP and brought to the Brazilian Motor doMuseu the collection
owned by the same engine .That was all dismantled and restored, after that it has been tested bench. It was also studied and relieved the problem of oil pressure, or the engine tava ready.Now lacked a car.
After long evaluation it was decided to make a Volkswagen Beetle Beechcraft, for reasons that enthusiasts can imagine, which put the name of the original prototype.
Some changes occurred in the engine to try to solve the oil problem, demanded 2 exchange bearings of the connecting rods, a new high-pressure pump driven by toothed belt improved the car's performance.
In fact, it is a fairing Beetle on a tubular chassis racing Espron. Only in March 2009 this engine was turned on to be displayed at the Auto Sport TV Globo, which will soon be aired. On the program's filming, the car showed
overheating due to kardródomo the runway Velopark incompatible with the car's performance.Now Paul and his mechanic Marcos are installing additional electric fans on the roof to improve engine cooling,
for only the air entradade on the front glass not supplied the air necessary for such activity. Paul Trevisan informed us that there is a great expectation of VW Bimotor Jamaro floor at the Interlagos circuit, later this year.
Now, this beautiful car is the only sound, a different snoring all other engines, and you can prove in
http://www.interney.net/blogs/saloma Soloma blog on YouTube (type Fusca Bimotor)
The Volkswagen Beetle Bimotor as we talked about before is part of the Brazilian Automobile Museum located in Passo Fundo.
Want to learn more, visit the website: http://www.museudoautomobilismo.com.br/"

]
/

[Mark Henry]

Why the hell would you go to all that trouble and then use single port heads (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[ldsgeek]

Why the hell would you go to all that trouble and then use single port heads (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Because that's what they had on hand? It doesn't look like they bought a lot of stuff for this project, keeping with the CSOB theme.

[veekry9]

'The Jamaro'.
Back in 1969, the brothers Jairo and Jair Amaro built the unique ganged VW engine,Emerson Fittipaldi ran one too.
Paul Trevisan* had the -8 'Jamaro' built in 2009.Marco and Arlindo did it in their shop,maybe with a gas torch. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Tig or not,a great piece of artwork.Be the first here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) No doubt a trek into the world of invention.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

/

[VWTortuga336]

Why the hell would you go to all that trouble and then use single port heads (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I was thinking the same thing as soon as I saw the heads. Even if you don't have any on hand, with the price of used dual port heads, you could buy 4 and still keep it in the CSOB price range.

[Mueller]

So it looks like it took 3 engine cases for the Brazilian motor...interesting and it makes sense now that I look at it.

The crankshaft is what I really want to see. If I am thinking about this correctly, the rear bearing of one crank and front bearing of another crank will be in the same place.

So with some careful planning, machine front crank rear bearing journal to fit into a machined recess of the rear crank, drill holes and rosette weld assembly.

[veekry9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfnN5Xna2Kc


The journal is prepared by machining a "j" root vee and given a preheat,a few tig passes then cover passes by smaw in an oven.
X-ray quality welds,like for pressure vessels,it's a 2"bar of steel that's highly stressed by the torsional loads.
The Brazilian said the builder had cast a crank for the engine in malleable iron,a nodular pour was possible then,in Brazil.

[Mueller]

The journal is prepared by machining a "j" root vee and given a preheat,a few tig passes then cover passes by smaw in an oven.
X-ray quality welds,like for pressure vessels,it's a 2"bar of steel that's highly stressed by the torsional loads.
The Brazilian said the builder had cast a crank for the engine in malleable iron,a nodular pour was possible then,in Brazil,in '68.

I've done some aluminum castings at home, I built a propane fueled furnace years ago. The added heat of cast iron scares me a little!

[veekry9]

An unfortunate smelting accident.

The fella's got a neat setup,and is able to stay well away from the heat.
Pouring ferrous calls for different techniques in moulding and attention to the charge's metallurgy.
Iron cranks are just fine for a trial and experimental engine,pretty cheap too.

[damesandhotrods]

Why the hell would you go to all that trouble and then use single port heads (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

There is a belief in the VW Bus crowd that single port heads are stronger, less prone to cracking, and make more torque than Dual Port heads…

[Mueller]

[

Simple.More displacement needed.
Desired a less expensive way than buying a production engine.
This engine is very nice,like what Emerson Fittipaldi raced as a 3.2L. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Brazil,Sweden,places it's been done.

Part:
Weld or machine
(1) a crank,2 flat 4s 90* apart
(2) crankcases,T1,T4,Corvair,or custom.(Custom Corvair lost foam casting)
(3) cylinder heads,pushrod or ohc,air or water cooled.(kiss,vvt twincam,pushrod)
(4) Nickies to 8 x 96mm x 76mm =4.4L(Big bore,short stroke and deck height)

yeah,4v pushrod.

a 4 cylinder.

Actually ran.

There is no easier way to build the F8 than the Brazilian's method.kiss.

What to put it in:
http://scootermcrad.blogspot.ca/2014/07/po...conception.html

Anymore pictures of the 4 valve setup? I don't see how the valves are actuated?
I see the tubes on the bottom of the complete motor, but after that I am lost.

[Mueller]

I found more pictures of the Lind Type IV flat 8 motor and it appears he stuck one into a 914!


Notice "8" on the rear of the car and the rear trunk modified for clearance for the air cleaners.








https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GpMGPUMyXE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4kxqwUP1Q0


I found a thread on another air cooled forum with Jake Raby looking into buying one of these motors, I guess they wanted way too much $$ for him to justify doing it.