Flat 8 ? I've seen pics of the Lind one, how about a running one here! Options

[veekry9]

Anymore pictures of the 4 valve setup? I don't see how the valves are actuated?
I see the tubes on the bottom of the complete motor, but after that I am lost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEcmCWhKZ-c


Hmmm...So many pix.Still searching for them.
The 4V heads are JimFueling/Rivera for HD V-Twins.

The stacked VW T1 photo shows a different set of 4V heads of a very unique design that used interconnected rockers.
Somewhere in California in the '70s for buggys and rails.Likely only experimental stage of development back then.


Australian machined billet,chromolly,~4340.
Note the crankpin orientation of 2 flat-4s end to end 90* apart cross-plane like.
Not interspersed as in the drawing #1.

/

[veekry9]

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=384359
Scat has the real info on those heads,seems they were flogging them.

[r_towle]

Anyone know how to contact the guys in Sweden?
A name and address will do, I have family over there to hunt them down.
I would like to see how much he wants for one of the motors.

[veekry9]

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=115771
Newton's Law of momentum. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


"Piledriver's extension of Newtons first law:
A vehicle on jackstands tends to remain that way.
Further:
The longer it stays on jackstands, the more money will be needed to get it back off."

What could be more true?

[veekry9]

http://thekneeslider.com/francesco-romanel...mazing-designs/
Makin it work.

[Mark Henry]

Why the hell would you go to all that trouble and then use single port heads (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

There is a belief in the VW Bus crowd that single port heads are stronger, less prone to cracking, and make more torque than Dual Port heads…

The stronger and less prone to cracking part is true.
More torque is BS

You have to remember a bus on a freeway handles and is about as aerodynamic as a brick double shit house on wheels

[Mark Henry]

On the heads it's like history repeating itself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

These split port heads are nothing new in fact they have been around since the 70's
None were ever more than a prototype novelty.
They were all too expensive.
They never made enough extra HP over well prepped VW heads to justify the expense.

The only one that were ever made some what commercially viable were the Scat split port heads and they were a total POS turd pile.

Anyone know how to contact the guys in Sweden?
A name and address will do, I have family over there to hunt them down.
I would like to see how much he wants for one of the motors.

Why?...it's not going to be cheap. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)



I understand this is just a theoretical discussion but .......wow....really?

[veekry9]

VW Radial 7,Because he knows how and wanted to. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyRJeZ6s8uM



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGeSIM_8BHY


Not sure if he's going to fly it with only 2L. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

I would think a larger footprint for the stand would be a good thing,wouldn't want to be chased around the yard by the massive thing.
I am lovin this Bug much more than I should,so impractical,outrageous,loud and smokey.
(I hope someone agrees it should be a mid engine) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
And now the world needs a aircooled 7L T4 V12. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Go ahead,test your talent.

[veekry9]

Could do worse than by starting with these watercooled heads. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Keep it truebrand and not narp.
A custom crank with 8 crankpins,and a crankcase to hold it all together.
Some coated bores in a more staggered layout,to keep it newtech.
Keeping the stroke real short and the bore oversquare a revver you would have.
Definitely a lightweight rod+piston package,none of this is cheap.
A Porsche 771 is unobtainium,so build a custom 8 to power your custom 914.


TT 914 2.1L-6
Something to aspire to,trying to keep up with those 917s and 962s.


6+2=8

The mother of invention.

/
A look at a million's value of -8,-12 Porsche engines.
http://www.carbuildindex.com/23811/porsche...-and-recovered/

[Mueller]

Could do worse by starting with these watercooled heads. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Keep it truebrand and not narp.
A custom crank with 8 rod pins and a crankcase to hold it all together.
Some coated bores in a more staggered layout,to keep it newtech.
Keeping the stroke real short and the bore oversquare a revver you would have.
Definitely a lightweight rod+piston package,none of this is cheap.
A Porsche 771 is unobtainium,so build a custom 8 to power your custom 914.


TT 914 2.1L-6
Something to aspire to,trying to keep up with those 917s and 962s.


6+2=8

The mother of invention.

I'm a little partial to the 956 motor, water cooled heads with air cooled cylinders (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ideally no water cooled anything....those radial motors are cool, great HP for the weight...

[Dave_Darling]

....those radial motors are cool, great HP for the weight...

Not by today's standards. Modern engines can be far better than the radials in that regard.

--DD

[Mueller]

....those radial motors are cool, great HP for the weight...

Not by today's standards. Modern engines can be far better than the radials in that regard.

--DD

Only if you add water....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[veekry9]

Reliability was the test of success at the time."If it ain't round,it ain't sound".

[veekry9]

Air or Water is the question you must resolve first to begin planning the ultimate 8 and how the vibes will be cured.
Swept volume larger than the 3L of the factory engines is limited by the weight that will shake.
With the factory S4 heads in good detailed form,a massive task is solved.
The whole idea is preposterous of course,taking the heads off a damaged V8 and adapt them to a custom F8 block.
Then adding turbos when the reliability is proven.Mission creep,yeah but so very interesting to develop and prove out.
Bruce Crower ran the Indy 500 with such an engine,the magneto drive DNF'd the car,running big pressure and methanol.

(Edit:03/08/15: Pocono 500 1977 Chuck Gurney #57

Nope,Not the Indy 500 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
Eagle 72 [7205] (Chuck Gurney): AAR's third team car in 1972 and entered at the Indy 500 as the #48 Mystery Eagle for Jerry Grant. Also raced by Grant at other races that season, taking pole position at Ontario with the first official lap at over 200 mph. The car was sold to engine specialist Bruce H. Crower for 1973 and entered as his #23 Crower Cams car as a test bed for various Chevrolet engine projects over the next three seasons. In late 1976, the car returned again as the #57, powered by Crower's own flat-8 engine. Crower then acquired a 1974 Eagle for 1978 and the '72 car was retired. It was still owned by Crower in 2014.)



Pretty sure that's Dan Gurney in the blue shirt.

[Dave_Darling]

Only if you add water....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yes--like I said, modern motors.

--DD

[veekry9]

Before you cut: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Leave excess material for finishing weld prep on both sides of crankcase.
Prepare hollow steel shafts to locate both cam and crankshaft bores +.0005/-0.0002",longitudinal spacing can be accomplished by using case thru-bolts or cylinder spigots.
This Type 1 case has been cut through the lifter bores,not good.
The type 4 case must be cut to avoid critical areas and to facilitate ease of welding.
The Corvair case has symmetrical attributes and a flat milled open top that allows reinforcement plates or a cam carrier to be attached.
A great deal of thought and mapping must be done to attempt a +/-0.003 weldment,preheating and inert gas atmosphere enclosure to ensure top quality welds and alignment.
An adventure in engine building,not mere assembly.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[veekry9]

Corvair cases tig welded to an 8 cylinder configuration.
The VW Type 1 and Porsche Type 4 cases are a more difficult proposition.
The difficulty lies in the asymmetric designs of both.
The cut path and weld is therefore more of a meandering length.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[veekry9]

This is getting better every minute. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

http://bringatrailer.com/2014/08/19/flat-t...-canam-tribute/

[Mueller]

Corvair cases tig welded to an 8 cylinder configuration.
The VW Type 1 and Porsche Type 4 cases are a more difficult proposition.
The difficulty lies in the asymmetric designs of both.
The cut path and weld is therefore more of a meandering length.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

Wow, that sure needs some cleaning up...wonder how many layers that sucker is on?!

Anymore info on it? Was it actually made?

[veekry9]

HaHa,two.
This is an ongoing work in progress toward F8 perfection.When you say layers,I suppose you mean Cad.
Not cad,these are the GM drawings that I've modified to make 8,in Gimp.
Cleaned up the photocopy,scaled and rotated,hours of fun.Then modded and dimensioned.
A twin cam VVT is in the works as a reasonable compromise,the heads are the toughest job. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Watercooled canted 4 valve,pushrod,a kiss approach.

Where to get them.20+ years they've been posted.
http://autoxer.skiblack.com/nallm/cylhd/jpeg/
http://autoxer.skiblack.com/
(I have always wondered if,in another parallel reality,a mid-engined Corvair roadster would have been a sales worthy auto in '68-69.
A 2 seat open top Targa,with lightweight composite lids and doors,a fastback.The sohc 6 would have,in turbo form,supplied 250+ hp easily.)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
(edit:11/10/15)
BTW,these drawing are of the product from which the original diecast mold shop created the working drawing for the dies themselves.
In the '50s and 60s,the task was monstersized with the scarcity or near non-existence of NC machine tooling.
The primary driver for GE/Westinghouse expenditures to develop the tech,the ability to command a quadrant of a circle in the path of a heavy machinetool.
Pantograph or "copymills"were still being used extensively but the development of higher level languages made the programming workload such that adoption was rapid.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=corvair+engi...52F%3B640%3B512


SOHC 2.9L

(edit:11/09/15)
A real testbed engine,flogged on the dyno,test track and public roads from Death Valley to Las Vegas and Denver and above.
The Turbo was the winner of the contest,the production costs associated with the OHC engines nulled the greenlite.
A further development could have paid dividends in the soon to expand sportscar market.
A direct competitor to the Porsche 911,a mid-engined Fiero chassis in CF for a solid 375hp in '65-75.
A rose colored 20-20 into the past. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)