914-6/904 project begins Options

[Unobtanium-inc]

After much consultation with the brains at Elephant Racing they have about three tricks I can do to shave up to 3 inches off, very exciting.
So next week I will start to lower all 4 towers where they need to be so I can know how much we need to shave on the existing struts.

[Mueller]

After much consultation with the brains at Elephant Racing they have about three tricks I can do to shave up to 3 inches off, very exciting.
So next week I will start to lower all 4 towers where they need to be so I can know how much we need to shave on the existing struts.

or you could have just read post #496 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[veekry9]

914,904 or even the 906.
OK,so,you need a set of control arms to fit in a short headspace,and you have to carry a spare.
A half height bulkhead will carry the top arm's bushing,adjustable for static caster.
The top bushing beam,a virtual copy of the lower,is adjustable by shims and a keyway for static camber.
The damper arrangement is preferably kept low to the ground,10mm in front of the beams,the left attached on the right in an x configuration,levers n pushrods if you like.
Or the simple reinforcement of the lower arm to carry the increased load of the angled shock tubes.
About 100mm of space in front of the bulkhead,chopped to the lower red line to clear the 904 hood.
The top red line is the top of the tires.
In lieu of a Celette bench,a time tried method involves a set of pillars,wood posts even.
The whole chassis ought to be welded to the floor via tubular risers of 30-40",that have been fastened to the concrete.Truly level,+/- 1/64",.26mm,use a transit,laser level,and shim into place.

[veekry9]

Another drawing,top view.
Compact,low,easy install,the existing bulkhead is used as an attach plane for the supplementary top beam,in two pieces,fastened to the bottom beam.
Forms a w truss,transferring the loads to the unibody,adjustable by shim and sliding key.
A reinforcing channel or tube can be added on the rear of the bulkhead,as it has been chopped to clear the bonnet.
The factory fuel tank likely must be sectioned to clear the hood,the filler neck re-positioned.
The steering rack is in the factory position.
The boxed ribs carry the noses of the shortened top arms,adjustable by shim and slots.


(edit:01/22/16) 914 chassis cut to remove 150 mm from wheelbase to match the 904's 2300 dimension.

Closely scaled,+/- 1.5mm,1/16",gimped.

Clearly,the shortened strut will clear the 904 hood,the travel sufficient.
The torsion spring appears to have enough room too.
Smooth sailing ahead,now,about that wishbone 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
Some good advantage,a rising rate of camber and allowing a wider tire without the constraints of the MacPherson struts.
The more I look at it,the more I like it.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I know of only a few 14s that have made a conversion.
The nice part is the use of factory parts,hacked and welded.

/

[Unobtanium-inc]

Another drawing,top view.
Compact,low,easy install,the existing bulkhead is used as an attach plane for the supplementary top beam,in two pieces,fastened to the bottom beam.
Forms a w truss,transferring the loads to the unibody,adjustable by shim and sliding key.
A reinforcing channel or tube can be added on the rear of the bulkhead,as it has been chopped to clear the bonnet.
The factory fuel tank likely must be sectioned to clear the hood,the filler neck re-positioned.
The steering rack is in the factory position.
The boxed ribs carry the noses of the shortened top arms,adjustable by shim and slots.



Closely scaled,+/- 1.5mm,1/16",gimped.

Clearly,the shortened strut will clear the 904 hood,the travel sufficient.
The torsion spring appears to have enough room too.
Smooth sailing ahead,now,about that wishbone 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
Some good advantage,a rising rate of camber and allowing a wider tire without the constraints of the MacPherson struts.
The more I look at it,the more I like it.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I know of only a few 14s that have made the conversion.
The nice part is the use of factory parts,hacked and welded.

You did a much better job with the overlay, mine was hand drawn from the manual.

[Bruce Hinds]

love the overlaid drawings, but didn't you shorten the wheel base 5"????

[Unobtanium-inc]

love the overlaid drawings, but didn't you shorten the wheel base 5"????

I did on mine, old school, cut the paper, it looks like the other one is the correct dims too.

[veekry9]

http://msroadrace.com/index.php?route=prod...gory&path=4
This version uses the diecast crossmembers,to carry the upper a-arms.
As moulded,baked enamel,polished and anodized finishes,your preference.
The top member is fastened to the chopped bulkhead,to clear the low bonnet.
This would fit nicely into early 911s as well,with the mods to the bulkhead more complex.
As for the upper torsion springs,the inclusion depends on the desired rate and the possibility of a higher stiffness beyond a defined roll angle,a two curve rate.
With the shortened upper arm,a shorter spring could be included.
The absence of dampers in the image is deliberate,any number of schemes is under consideration.
A standard configuration shock,leaned to attach to the upper crossmember is the simplest approach,though the lower arm must be reinforced when welding the receiver to it.
An attach element for the top end of the damper is also needed,bolted to the upper crossmember.
Placing the shocks inside and using a rocker arrangement has a few advantages although more complex,using more parts.



This is a low headroom install with modified parts for a 914 to 904 metamorphosis,cheap (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) too.
Requires some fab skill and sweat equity for a polished result,a good handler that won't roll the tire under in hard braking and turning maneuvers.
A 914/911/904/906 torsion spring,unequal length a-arm suspension with some potential for wider,taller tires and lowered(or raised) ride heights.
/

[veekry9]

A rigid member to carry your double wishbone suspension.
Transforms the front end of the 914 into a modern handler,with 914/911 parts.
Now for the rears,the 904's a trailing links setup,very nicely done in '63.
The roll,squat and rear steering curves are vastly different than the 914's.
The 914 was built to a totally unlike production oriented design with the costs of manufacture and assembly paramount.
The 904/14 should exhibit some degree of similar characteristics,giving the correct amount of camber and roll induced steering.
Just so the the entire effort isn't a bust when it does a turn at Watkins Glen,oversteering grossly and disappointing.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

https://www.google.ca/search?q=porsche+914+...rack+day+racing
https://www.google.ca/search?q=porsche+904+...Z0AwIQ_AUIBygB#

/

[veekry9]

Looking back at the earlier posts regarding the hallowed status of the IMSA racer.
A part of me would like to see it resurrected as well,and further,modified as a competitive entrant in current series.
Once a racer,still a racer.
First thing,lighten up,then the extreme aero mods to make a smaller hole in the air.
The roll cage,hacked to fit the targa bar closely with the intent of drag reduction.
And on and on to the cleanest 914 to date,'to make a fast racer faster'.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)


http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/66532-1...mounted-Audi-V8

Randy,
I'll make the same argument to you that I made to everyone else. Everyone wanted $25,000+ for half finished six conversions. Nobody wanted this car, it had been languishing on ebay for months, I got it for $15,000, and sold the gearbox for $5000, so I'm down to $10,000. The car had not been raced in years and was destined to be sitting for many more. I will drive it and maybe race again with it.
When I first got the car I offered to trade it for a tired six conversion if anyone wanted to preserve the heritage, all I heard was crickets.
So in actuality I am saving this car, it was destined to be chopped up for it's parts, which it would have been in a few years time.
As far as preserving history, I am also restoring the 58 A Coupe that won at Daytona in 66, I pulled this one out of the mud, where it was dumped in 69.

Daytona Winner? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)
Farming out the dipping for a one off makes sense economically.
A field of dreams like what you have there in Ravenna may be more attractive with the absence of your evil foe,FeO.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=electrolytic...1.5#q=redistrip
https://www.google.ca/search?q=electrolytic...SgA&dpr=1.5
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...hl=electrolytic

/

[sixnotfour]

wasn't It a Daytona participant ???

if that is Dave McClain's #19 car from the 1966 24 hrs of Daytona, it DNF 80 laps in with a gearbox problem.
I hope we will see this 356 on the track again some day!

[veekry9]

McLain


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phs3i0onDDg


http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Dayt...1966-02-06.html

more:
Surtees-'66

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUT5mDCwNYI
That slope down to the river sure looks like a big dropoff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4x29XpIg0E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bztj3gkZoJU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utjmPCYUumo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9fngNwbUIo

Some of the races of significance early on here in Ontario while camping in the rain.
Bowmanville.

[veekry9]

https://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/in...e-906-prototype
https://www.google.ca/search?q=porsche+906+...p;q=porsche+906



Listed as a driver for the 904,Hans Herrmann drove the 906 to 6th overall and 1st in class.

BTW,this is a diecast model,not bad,huh?

[Unobtanium-inc]

wasn't It a Daytona participant ???

if that is Dave McClain's #19 car from the 1966 24 hrs of Daytona, it DNF 80 laps in with a gearbox problem.
I hope we will see this 356 on the track again some day!

The Daytona A Coupe was not driven by Dave McClain, it was driven by Jim Watson and it wasn't the Daytona 24 Hour race.
Here is a pic of the car racing at Courtland, AL a few months before.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Also, I really hope no one wants to re-start the discussion on the IMSA car, I don't think there is anything more to be said so nothing new will come out of talking about it again. What will come out is a bunch of people getting increasingly pissed off and upping the ante saying nasty things. I don't want to discuss it anymore, so please refrain from doing it on my thread about my build.

[Bruce Hinds]

Does anyone know what's become of the Texas Gull Wing 904?
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/you-want-p...he-p904-carrera

[veekry9]

Don't get me wrong,I'm in total agreement with you on the matter,it was merely a personal wish,but I have no stake in it.
The solutions to the suspension,fore and aft is what intrigues me,having done some prior,similar work.
One really farout front end is the double straight axle,Lakes style,with a twist and very low and compact.
I only mention it as no-one else has and may solve the problem if any are encountered in the weeks to come.

https://427motorco.co.uk/pages/the-camber-c...spension-system
This one is dear to my heart for it's design brilliance.
A derivative is on the back burner,with a few tweaks.
https://www.youtube.com/user/maicy123/videos
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)

[veekry9]

The strut tube still full length,hanging off the lower arm,can't tell if the spindle has been raised.
The rear weldment seems to be attached to where the tx mount attaches.
Zooming in,a hint of a swing arm under the right side.
The door surrounds appear to have been layed up to improve the shutlines.
The rear wheels look to be corrrect.
I don't have a source for the pix,the car on a shelf,along with a number of engines of various descriptions.

[veekry9]

Phoenix-Mn
Put some actual numbers to the drawing on a 914 track width.



RH front suspension,upper a-arm on cut and welded strut.



LH front suspension,rubber boot over top a-arm.



CFRP chassis,articulated front suspension,note the rollbar arrangement.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Just when I was starting to make good progress, real life intervenes. A friend wanted all his parts gone, so it took us all week to load up, 3 truck and trailer loads, now the shop is tiny walking paths while we sort and sort, and then sort some more.
It was all 356 and early 911 stuff, but there was one 914 motor which will go back into circulation, probably for free again.
If only we all didn't have to make money to chase our dreams...