Biral Cylinders, Worth the difference on a daily driver? |
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Biral Cylinders, Worth the difference on a daily driver? |
914Sixer |
Nov 14 2015, 12:46 PM
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#1
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 8,988 Joined: 17-January 05 From: San Angelo Texas Member No.: 3,457 Region Association: Southwest Region |
I am getting going to get ready to put a 2056 FI engine together for a daily driver. Trying to decide if the cost is worth the difference. Biral are supposed to run 20 % cooler. Porsche used them for a couple of years and moved on to coatings.
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TJB/914 |
Nov 14 2015, 01:35 PM
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#2
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Mid-Engn. Group: Members Posts: 4,358 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Plymouth & Petoskey, MI Member No.: 346 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I am getting going to get ready to put a 2056 FI engine together for a daily driver. Trying to decide if the cost is worth the difference. Biral are supposed to run 20 % cooler. Porsche used them for a couple of years and moved on to coatings. Mark, I'd spend the money & go biral, because you do everything right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I went with a inexpensive high temp coating like the Harley Davison bikers. It was less than $100 bucks and they look great and still holding up. Temps are fine. Tom Attached image(s) |
r_towle |
Nov 14 2015, 04:07 PM
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#3
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,624 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
What do they cost?
What do they cost versus the aluminum ones? |
914Sixer |
Nov 14 2015, 06:29 PM
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#4
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 8,988 Joined: 17-January 05 From: San Angelo Texas Member No.: 3,457 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Cost difference is about $80 dollars for set or $20 per cylinder. Biral cylinders are cast iron with aluminum fins. Stock cylinders are all cast iron.
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r_towle |
Nov 14 2015, 08:39 PM
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#5
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,624 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
Do it for 80 bucks...no doubt.
Not to go too far off topic here, but how do the aluminum fin set get bonded to the cast iron cylinder ? |
Catorse |
Nov 14 2015, 09:07 PM
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 194 Joined: 27-August 15 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 19,106 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Do it for 80 bucks...no doubt. Not to go too far off topic here, but how do the aluminum fin set get bonded to the cast iron cylinder ? The iron cylinder is cast first, and then the aluminum fins are cast around that. Finally, the iron cylinder is machined to spec. When complete, a biral cylinder is a single contiguous unit. It can also be rebored no problem. They are lighter than iron cylinders obviously, and dissipate heat better. |
r_towle |
Nov 14 2015, 09:08 PM
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#7
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,624 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
No sleeves? No slippage ( like early 3.4 water cooled six) issues?
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914Sixer |
Nov 14 2015, 09:14 PM
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#8
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 8,988 Joined: 17-January 05 From: San Angelo Texas Member No.: 3,457 Region Association: Southwest Region |
I found a deal on them for $230 for all 4 96mm biral cylinders. So the cost will only be $30 over the cast iron set. No reason not to go for it. Now I can afford the Keith Black pistons and rings.
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PotterPorsche |
Nov 14 2015, 09:22 PM
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: 10-November 13 From: Hayward CA Member No.: 16,628 Region Association: None |
We are talking AA Biral cylinders right?
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914Sixer |
Nov 14 2015, 09:28 PM
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#10
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 8,988 Joined: 17-January 05 From: San Angelo Texas Member No.: 3,457 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Yes, AA birals.
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PotterPorsche |
Nov 14 2015, 09:30 PM
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: 10-November 13 From: Hayward CA Member No.: 16,628 Region Association: None |
http://aapistons.com/products/vw-96mm-type...riant=742291987
$227 and there is a discount code for 15% off That takes it down to $193 dollars |
r_towle |
Nov 14 2015, 09:31 PM
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#12
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,624 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
I have not heard wonderful things about AA cylinders so if this is a more complex manufacturing process I would suggest you work with a vendor that will take returns of singles until you get a set that matches to your specs and satisfaction.
Rich |
Catorse |
Nov 14 2015, 09:53 PM
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 194 Joined: 27-August 15 From: Los Angeles Member No.: 19,106 Region Association: Southwest Region |
I have not heard wonderful things about AA cylinders so if this is a more complex manufacturing process I would suggest you work with a vendor that will take returns of singles until you get a set that matches to your specs and satisfaction. Rich I have AA pistons on my 356 motor, 1720 big bore. They seem to be holding up well. Went up there to check out there operation as they are local. Seem to be good people. There is no slippage on Biral since the aluminum is cast onto the iron sleeve, which has ridges to keep the formed aluminum in place. 356 cylinders were biral from the factory. No problems with this. |
PotterPorsche |
Nov 14 2015, 09:59 PM
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: 10-November 13 From: Hayward CA Member No.: 16,628 Region Association: None |
I've used the aa Pistons in a few engines. No problems so far. I have heard that you should get a dial bore gauge and inspect cylinder for roundness. I'm still planning my 96 or 98mm pistons for my 78 stroked engine.
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r_towle |
Nov 15 2015, 11:46 AM
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#15
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,624 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
Good prices at AA.
Does anyone know them? If so could you ask them about doing Biral 103 mm cylinders? The head prices are ridiculous, not even worth doing a set of stock heads at those prices. Good to see this vendor. Rich |
Mueller |
Nov 15 2015, 11:54 AM
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#16
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,150 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None |
I have not heard wonderful things about AA cylinders so if this is a more complex manufacturing process I would suggest you work with a vendor that will take returns of singles until you get a set that matches to your specs and satisfaction. Rich It has been about 10 years it seems, but I had a set of AA piston and cylinders and one of the cylinder casting had a defect at the top where it mates to the head. I called them and the next day someone from their SF office stopped by the house and exchanged the cylinder. I'm a good 1 hour East of SF so I am guessing he was heading this direction already. Point is , I had a problem part and they helped correct it. |
Montreal914 |
Nov 15 2015, 11:56 AM
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#17
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,675 Joined: 8-August 10 From: Claremont, CA Member No.: 12,023 Region Association: Southern California |
I have not heard wonderful things about AA cylinders so if this is a more complex manufacturing process I would suggest you work with a vendor that will take returns of singles until you get a set that matches to your specs and satisfaction. Rich I have AA pistons on my 356 motor, 1720 big bore. They seem to be holding up well. Went up there to check out there operation as they are local. Seem to be good people. There is no slippage on Biral since the aluminum is cast onto the iron sleeve, which has ridges to keep the formed aluminum in place. 356 cylinders were biral from the factory. No problems with this. So are you saying that they are actually making them here in the LA area? Can you buy direct from them? They must have an inspection room where they can do measurement to ensure roundness (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
mr2by4 |
Nov 15 2015, 02:15 PM
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 182 Joined: 9-December 07 From: Fort Worth Member No.: 8,439 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Good prices at AA. Does anyone know them? If so could you ask them about doing Biral 103 mm cylinders? The head prices are ridiculous, not even worth doing a set of stock heads at those prices. Good to see this vendor. Rich Odd that there is no additional cost on the heads to have them relocate the spark plugs to the 2.0 location. How do the economics of that work? It seems like the welding and re-machining would add some cost. |
Mueller |
Nov 15 2015, 02:22 PM
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#19
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,150 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None |
Good prices at AA. Does anyone know them? If so could you ask them about doing Biral 103 mm cylinders? The head prices are ridiculous, not even worth doing a set of stock heads at those prices. Good to see this vendor. Rich Odd that there is no additional cost on the heads to have them relocate the spark plugs to the 2.0 location. How do the economics of that work? It seems like the welding and re-machining would add some cost. I don't see that in writing or in the pictures for the "stock" heads. The $1700 modified heads mention it. I'd venture to say the stock replacement 2.0 heads just have the larger bores for the cylinders and that is all. |
Dave_Darling |
Nov 15 2015, 03:18 PM
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#20
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 15,048 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California |
I have heard of earlier low-cost birals having slippage issues. I dont' know if it was AA, though.
I don't think I'd bother for a street-driven 2056, myself. Cast-iron has proven itself for that config over and over again. --DD |
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