Just another 2056 build, Misc Questions Options

[sdoolin]

Yep, I am building a 2056. Have ordered very nearly a complete 2056 engine kit from Type IV Store (LN Engineering). Some questions (I have searched and read MANY threads)...

I have a "spare" 1976 VW Bus short block (no cyl. heads). Assume this will work for a starting point? Issues with oil dipstick? The bus was an automatic so I assume once I remove the "flex plate" that the flywheel from by 914 engine (in car) will bolt up to the crank without issues? Any issues with engine carrier? The bus used a "moustache bar" for mounting to the frame and I am hoping that the cases from the bus/914 are the same for engine mounting?

Will re-use existing Crank/rods
New crank/rod bearings
Will re-use existing cylinders (overbored)
KB 96 mm flat topped pistons with Hastings rings
Webcam cam (9130 kit from Type IV Store)
Type IV Store pushrods, pushrod ends, parkerized lifters, rocker shafts
Type IV Store cam bearings

Re-use rockers from bus engine? Not sure about this...

HAM (Len Hoffman) RS+ spec cylinder heads
New Oil pump from Type IV Store
New clutch & pressure plate.
Re-use flywheel from 914 engine (in the car)

Dellorto Dual 40mm carbs, CB Perf manifolds & linkage
SSI heat exchangers & Bursch exhaust
New fuel pump - will run return lines (have CFR SS Lines in car now and will re-use)

Not sure what dizzy to run?

I believe I need to check/verify deck height and valve clearance (I know how, just not positive this is required for a 2056 build).

I have read a few threads about "setting" compression ration, but do not understand it yet? Anyone have a compression ratio for dummies guide?

Anything else I'm missing?

Progress so far...

[Valy]

Block off the bus oil dipstick hookup and install a 914 dipstick.
See my signature for the gaskets you need on the block-off plate.

[Dave_Darling]

I have read a few threads about "setting" compression ration, but do not understand it yet?

You set the compression ratio by moving the cylinder heads outward (lowers compression) or inward (raises compression). Moving the heads out can be done by adding spacers under the cylinders. Moving them inward is usually done by fly-cutting the heads, though machining the cylinders probably can work too.

The simple version is that the compression ratio is the ratio of volume of the whole chamber plus cylinder at BDC to the volume of the same stuff at TDC. You can calculate that in a few ways, the most common is:
(swept_volume + fixed_volume) / (fixed_volume)

The swept volume is determined by the bore and stroke of one cylinder, with a 2056cc that would be (96/2)*(96/2) * 71 * 3.14159 / 1000 ~= 514cc. (Or 2056cc / 4.)

The fixed volume is measured in several parts that are added together. The combustion chamber volume is measured using your cylinder heads and your spark plugs and your valves and such. The height of the cylinder above the piston is measured, and used to calculate the volume of the space left above the piston. Dished or domed pistons get measured for volume (how depends on the piston) and that volume gets added to (dished) or subtracted from (domed) the fixed volume.

Then you plug the numbers in and see what your compression ratio is. Then see how much you need to add to the fixed volume to lower the number to where you want it, or how much you need to remove from the fixed volume to raise the number.


... Or you take the whole shebang to a good machine shop and tell them you want X for the compression ratio and they do it all for you... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

--DD

[sdoolin]

Valy - thanks for the info. The case I am hoping to use does not have a hole for a dipstick. I suppose I can drill one?

See pic...


DD - thanks for the "compression ratio for dummies" guide. That is quite helpful.

[TheCabinetmaker]

Why not source a 914 case?

[sdoolin]

Why not source a 914 case?

Good question. I had this laying around and hoped to use it (free and all). I may have to buy cases...

[r_towle]

Check to make sure it's straight, the crank journals are straight and the deck (where the cylinders sit) is one flat plane.

Most machine shops will tell you to line bore the case without bothering to measure it.

You can measure everything I said above on your own with a good set of tools.

[McMark]

Yup, check condition of the case before you put more work into it. You can drill a new dipstick hole if the case is good.

[malcolm2]

Sorry I did not read thru the whole post and all comments.... maybe I won't cover something mentioned. But my 2 cents:

I have read that if you have a choice,
1. start with a 1.7 case. Clearance is required to build over a 1.8 with it, but I believe they are beefier all 'round.
2. You will hear it all the time... Bus engines push heavy buses, you might be starting with a more worn case mile for mile.
3. Study up on the benefits of using 911 rockers with swivel feet, not a big expense, but you should decide.
4. buy the kit and pull the pressed in oil galley plugs with screw in type. once I put a drill bit on the big ones, they FELL out. Imagine what would happen with oil pressure.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
5. I re-used the PP, FW and resurfaced the clutch in my daily driver. Took them all to a shop that specializes in clutches and they made them like new for about $150.
6. on your CR question, Len will be able to tell you the volume of the combustion area in the head. If he is supplying. IIRC mine was something like 55cc? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) He wrote it with a sharpie on the head.
7. find a copy of Jake's video to go with all the books you should have also purchased... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[Sedonut]

You should be able to buy a 914 case cheap. Like maybe $50.

The other factor if if you take a little bit of time to find the right case for your car, I will make your car a little more valuable. If it were me, and I did , find a GA case so you have a 2.0 case as you are building a 2.0 engine. You can put "correct 2.0 case" in your sales ad, it all gets sold eventually.

To give you an idea if what I have paid over the past year, a fresh long block 2.0 case, 1.8 heads for $1600, a 2.0 case and crank from a generous 914 world member for $380, and a 2.0 case I picked up with some parts from another 914 world member for $50.

[sdoolin]

You should be able to buy a 914 case cheap. Like maybe $50.

The other factor if if you take a little bit of time to find the right case for your car, I will make your car a little more valuable. If it were me, and I did , find a GA case so you have a 2.0 case as you are building a 2.0 engine. You can put "correct 2.0 case" in your sales ad, it all gets sold eventually.

To give you an idea if what I have paid over the past year, a fresh long block 2.0 case, 1.8 heads for $1600, a 2.0 case and crank from a generous 914 world member for $380, and a 2.0 case I picked up with some parts from another 914 world member for $50.

My car has a running (numbers matching and original) 2.0l in it, all stock FI and all. So I will keep that engine in house should I ever decide to go full concourse with this car (which will NEVER happen). The 2056 I'm building is just for "fun" and I am hoping to use this set of bus cases.

Thanks for the suggestions, I agree correct and numbers matching engine increases value.

[sdoolin]

Sorry I did not read thru the whole post and all comments.... maybe I won't cover something mentioned. But my 2 cents:

I have read that if you have a choice,
1. start with a 1.7 case. Clearance is required to build over a 1.8 with it, but I believe they are beefier all 'round.
2. You will hear it all the time... Bus engines push heavy buses, you might be starting with a more worn case mile for mile.
3. Study up on the benefits of using 911 rockers with swivel feet, not a big expense, but you should decide.
4. buy the kit and pull the pressed in oil galley plugs with screw in type. once I put a drill bit on the big ones, they FELL out. Imagine what would happen with oil pressure.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
5. I re-used the PP, FW and resurfaced the clutch in my daily driver. Took them all to a shop that specializes in clutches and they made them like new for about $150.
6. on your CR question, Len will be able to tell you the volume of the combustion area in the head. If he is supplying. IIRC mine was something like 55cc? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) He wrote it with a sharpie on the head.
7. find a copy of Jake's video to go with all the books you should have also purchased... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

Thanks for suggestions.
I am starting with a known 2.0l case (from a bus).
Agree on your number 2, cases will get measured before any new parts installed.
Will certainly study the 911 swivel feet rockers, my Cam kit came from Type IV Store does include ball-ends for the pushrods.
Oil galley plugs will be removed/replaced
I have new clutch, PP, and will re-use existing FW (assuming it will bolt to crank - witch I gotta believe it does_
I will speak with Len on CC volume, he and I have already exchanged several messages.
I have Raby's video - it is gospel I belive.

Thanks again.

[Dave_Darling]

The 914 flywheel will bolt to the Bus crank. There is a difference about where the pilot bearing lives, but on the 914 it lives in the flywheel so it just goes in the 914 flywheel. I don't remember if you need to plug the hole in the Bus crank or not.

The oil galleries may be slightly different on a Bus case, particularly if it was a hydro-lifter case. But even if they are different, they're still useable.

--DD

[ericoneal]

I also have a 2.0 engine and am in the process of purchasing a spare engine to learn to rebuild and make into a 2056 to use a spare. Strange thing is that we live in the same town too....

You should be able to buy a 914 case cheap. Like maybe $50.

The other factor if if you take a little bit of time to find the right case for your car, I will make your car a little more valuable. If it were me, and I did , find a GA case so you have a 2.0 case as you are building a 2.0 engine. You can put "correct 2.0 case" in your sales ad, it all gets sold eventually.

To give you an idea if what I have paid over the past year, a fresh long block 2.0 case, 1.8 heads for $1600, a 2.0 case and crank from a generous 914 world member for $380, and a 2.0 case I picked up with some parts from another 914 world member for $50.

My car has a running (numbers matching and original) 2.0l in it, all stock FI and all. So I will keep that engine in house should I ever decide to go full concourse with this car (which will NEVER happen). The 2056 I'm building is just for "fun" and I am hoping to use this set of bus cases.

Thanks for the suggestions, I agree correct and numbers matching engine increases value.

[Jake Raby]

Thats a solid combo. Put it at 9:1 and it'll be sweet! Thats a 135HP combo on most days, it'll optimize with a 140 main, and 60 idles with the 40 Dells with 34mm ventures. It'll love 14* initial advance, with a 28* full advance.

BTW_ that video is now 16 years old, and I am 45 pounds heavier... :-)

[Jesco Reient]

To be sure you want to make sure that before you do anything else the Bores for the crankshaft bearings are round AND in line with each other. I don't see anything that is "just fine go ahead and run it" We do a lot of line bore on Type IV cases and we are having to to clean the cylinder spigots about 0.010 to make them flat and match side to side on average. A precision straight edge will tell you what is going on with #1, #2, and #3, but you'll need a little more to see how #4 lines up. We invested a lot of time and money making better tooling.

Good luck let me know if I can be of help.
John

[sdoolin]

OK then. Lots of good/useful info - thanks everyone.

I will have my local shop measure all that has been suggested, he is capable.

ericoneal - we are very close - I am just north and east of LaGrange off Hwy 42.

I will be taking the bus cases to the machine shop early next week for cleaning, inspecting & measuring. I'm sure that will take a couple of weeks (one man show). Then if they check out I will begin building.

The beauty of this plan is that I still get to the drive the car while I am building.

Stay tuned...

[Jesco Reient]

Yup, check condition of the case before you put more work into it. You can drill a new dipstick hole if the case is good.

sdoolin,
Here is a link to the quick and easy dipstick tube fix. It's super easy and very good quality. I've done several. Best part is you can do it locally.
Good luck on your build. It is post #18 down at the bottom of the thread.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...stick+tube+fix#

[ThePaintedMan]

I believe the gentleman that just posted, Jesco Reinent also has several cases that are align-bored and decked, ready to go. He does great work, perhaps he'll share his pictures in this thread.

[stugray]

I believe the gentleman that just posted, Jesco Reinent also has several cases that are align-bored and decked, ready to go. He does great work, perhaps he'll share his pictures in this thread.

In fact when I build a new engine in the near future, I WILL be contacting Jesco_Reient for a case/crank combo (even though I have a case).

For what he charges for a case, crank, and bearings with the specialty machining already done, you cannot beat that price.