Rebuild a 2.7L or 3.0L six motor, which is cheaper? Options

[mepstein]

Just to keep it honest.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
Unless you have horseshoes up your ass, you're not likely to be finding any 3.2 for $5-6K these days.

Not a 3.2 but a twin plug 3.0 mfi for $4k, well, yes...

Is that what you found? I thought a 3.0 would be CIS?

This is a modified motor. I would have paid the money if it was a core.

[Steve]

Just to keep it honest.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
Unless you have horseshoes up your ass, you're not likely to be finding any 3.2 for $5-6K these days.

Yep!!
LA Dismantlers gets $8k-$10k for a 3.2 depending on mileage.

[mepstein]

I once heard the saying - the deal of a lifetime comes around once a month. I totally believe it.

[mepstein]

Just to keep it honest.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
Unless you have horseshoes up your ass, you're not likely to be finding any 3.2 for $5-6K these days.

Yep!!
LA Dismantlers gets $8k-$10k for a 3.2 depending on mileage.

That's if you buy retail.

[Justinp71]

If you don't already have Wayne Dempsey's 911 rebuilding book, you should get a copy. Lots of great information in there about engine combinations that work and their resulting characteristics.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

EXCEPT- DO NOT put silicone on the case thru bolts!!! He calls that out in his rebuild book. Made me seal my case up twice! Look up on the pelican forums (ironically), the proper way is to use some sort of special lubricant.

Other than that his book rocks!!!!

[Justinp71]

Just to keep it honest.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
Unless you have horseshoes up your ass, you're not likely to be finding any 3.2 for $5-6K these days.

Yep!!
LA Dismantlers gets $8k-$10k for a 3.2 depending on mileage.

Headstuds worry me on a used 3.2, that's why I choose to rebuild my 3.0. But if you didnt have a motor, purchasing a 3.2, replacing the headstuds, valvejob and re-sealing the topend is not a bad route to go. Shouldn't cost too much for the top-end rebuild.

[Steve]

Just to keep it honest.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
Unless you have horseshoes up your ass, you're not likely to be finding any 3.2 for $5-6K these days.

Yep!!
LA Dismantlers gets $8k-$10k for a 3.2 depending on mileage.

Headstuds worry me on a used 3.2, that's why I choose to rebuild my 3.0. But if you didnt have a motor, purchasing a 3.2, replacing the headstuds, valvejob and re-sealing the topend is not a bad route to go. Shouldn't cost too much.

I've never heard of a head stud problem with a 3.2. There are rare cases of valve guides and rod bolt problems. My motor has at least 150k miles on it and it's never been opened. Still has good compression, doesn't smoke or leak.
Interesting... I just googled it and broken head studs are showing up on high mileage 3.2 motors. Ah well... Nothing lasts forever except maybe the earth and sky!! lol

[porschetub]

a totally tight car with 115-125 hp would be plenty enjoyable and cost a shit load less. just saying. what is the status of your car at this moment?

Jim I think to OP is looking @ around 165 - 180 hp which ever motor he buys,again the cost to do this a 4 cyl is really up there cause you have to spend the extra to keep it reliable.
The cost involved in making the 2.7 more reliable is well documented,the 5 blade fan motors had big case issues for example due to overheating.
Both motors are rather lazy in there power output due to the CIS,many report good gains just going to well set-up carbs....then economy is an issue however.
The 3.0 is my choice because they are very reliable,make sure you buy a motor that is the most you can pay and a proven runner to start with.
You are going to spend a lot of money because its not just buying the motor ,but when you look at the original sixes now beyond any average guys budget the good conversions will hold and improve resale prices as time goes on.

[Justinp71]

for 165-180 hp is a n/a subaru motor the most cost effective choice? Assuming the original poster was interested.

Can you mount the radiator above the motor like the VW guys do? has anyone done that in a 914?

To answer the original question (2.7 vs 3.0) for cost, read wayne's book he adds up the machining cost on a 2.7 it is quite substantial. I used to have a 2.7 and elected to jump to the 3.0 case for this reason.

[Justinp71]

Just to keep it honest.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
Unless you have horseshoes up your ass, you're not likely to be finding any 3.2 for $5-6K these days.

Yep!!
LA Dismantlers gets $8k-$10k for a 3.2 depending on mileage.

Headstuds worry me on a used 3.2, that's why I choose to rebuild my 3.0. But if you didnt have a motor, purchasing a 3.2, replacing the headstuds, valvejob and re-sealing the topend is not a bad route to go. Shouldn't cost too much.

I've never heard of a head stud problem with a 3.2. There are rare cases of valve guides and rod bolt problems. My motor has at least 150k miles on it and it's never been opened. Still has good compression, doesn't smoke or leak.
Interesting... I just googled it and broken head studs are showing up on high mileage 3.2 motors. Ah well... Nothing lasts forever except maybe the earth and sky!! lol

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news... I think on the bright side if you keep your car inside most of the time they are suppose to last longer.

[JmuRiz]

I have a supposedly decent 2.7 core...I'll need to do a leak-down test to see if it's worth messing with. It has all the signs of the PO's story of a rebuild. Came out of a '77, but is a '74 case with oil tensioners, 11 blade fan, 930 valve covers etc.

Even saying that, I'd probably like to start with a 3.0 case if I could get one for the same $...and a 3.2 for sure if I could find a good one for ~$8k.

[Porschef]

a totally tight car with 115-125 hp would be plenty enjoyable and cost a shit load less. just saying. what is the status of your car at this moment?

Car is still half apart in the garage. Motor is still in it.

I'm kicking the tires here a little bit. My intentions had been to have a 2270 built with ITB's and megasquirt setup.

Here's the rub, and my .03 of thoughts, should you even be willing to pay that much for it, as I consider myself a 914 noob, and all this may be irrelevant... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Obviously you've been around here much longer.

Plenty of good advice here, I'm sure. Your OP was a question about rebuild costs for a 6, so that's obviously what you're considering. I doubt there's many here who haven't thought of dropping a six in their car. Very sexy, and nothing sounds like one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)
But now while your car is half apart is a good time to do a little tasting.

So... I've got a friend who decided to drop a six into his 914, and had a shop rebuild the 2.0 core he bought to slightly larger specs. I don't know what power he was able to attain ultimately, but the money he spent would blow your mind. Granted, the shop did all the work, soup to nuts, but it was nuts indeed. Fortunately he has the resources to do such a thing. He's happy with it. I drove that car.

I have another friend who had his 4 rebuilt to a 2270 by a very reputable shop. Not certain what the exact power result was, probably around 150. The money he spent was right in line with a performance 4 build. He's happy with it. I drove that car too.

Another friend found a real good deal on a six and did a very nice conversion in a short time for very low dollars, but I'm gathering he's the exception. Unfortunately, I haven't driven that car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Lastly, the 75 911 I had (which Mr. Anderson stated was the least desirable one in his buyer's guide, who knew) with it's 2.7 rated at 157hp from the factory, threw that car around very nicely. So nice in fact, I was able to pull real good like on my BIL's stock Vette down Las Virgenes one night in 2nd gear. (That was his last of some twenty Corvettes, he later bought a 930 but that's a whole 'nother story.) We both wound up with moving violations within a week of each other, albeit for different reasons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) I drove that car cross country, had it for a few more years, and it was completely reliable.

My own car went from a 2.0 to a 2056. It's a nice, noticeable difference.

Hmmm, pushrods. Hmmm, overhead cams... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Ok, what's my point? Probably the best thing you can do now is to try to get a little seat time in with cars that feature your possible choice. Everyone is different, so there's lots of variables. Unfortunately, budgets limit most of us. Then, of course, there's the slippery slope quotient so often mentioned here, which also needs to be factored in.

I know what I would pick. Whatever you decide, it's still gonna be fun.

[BeatNavy]

My intentions had been to have a 2270 built with ITB's and megasquirt setup.

That's exactly my focus right now for my resto-car, although it's going to be long enough before I'm ready that my focus could change. Are you NOT interested in going 2270/ITBs/Megasquirt now and did something change your mind? I suppose with the money and effort required regardless of the selection it's natural to want 200 hp rather than ~140/150...

[Mark Henry]

Just to keep it honest.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
Unless you have horseshoes up your ass, you're not likely to be finding any 3.2 for $5-6K these days.

Yep!!
LA Dismantlers gets $8k-$10k for a 3.2 depending on mileage.

Headstuds worry me on a used 3.2, that's why I choose to rebuild my 3.0. But if you didnt have a motor, purchasing a 3.2, replacing the headstuds, valvejob and re-sealing the topend is not a bad route to go. Shouldn't cost too much.

I've never heard of a head stud problem with a 3.2. There are rare cases of valve guides and rod bolt problems. My motor has at least 150k miles on it and it's never been opened. Still has good compression, doesn't smoke or leak.
Interesting... I just googled it and broken head studs are showing up on high mileage 3.2 motors. Ah well... Nothing lasts forever except maybe the earth and sky!! lol

Head studs are a common issue on the high milage 3.0-3.2, but unlike the mag cases that pull the stud out of the case, the dilvalar (sp?) studs are known to just snap.
Good news is it is most times an easy fix during a top end job.
3.0 have stronger rods, the 3.2 has been known on occasion to throw a rod.
Valve guides are not rare what so ever and must be serviced/replaced during a top end service.

The 3.2 is a real good engine and has a excellent FI system, but never be sucked into the complacency of thinking it's a perfect, bullet proof engine.
All versions of the /6 engines have strengths and weaknesses.

[worn]

What's a good price these days for a 2.7L vs 3.0L core for rebuild?

I'm finding the 2.7L motors about $3-4K cheaper....

That seems to be an important aspect. The motor itself starts cheaper by quite a bit because of the factors listed here. In 1976, you would have had quite the thing with a 2.7 in the 914.

[mepstein]

Just to keep it honest.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
Unless you have horseshoes up your ass, you're not likely to be finding any 3.2 for $5-6K these days.

Yep!!
LA Dismantlers gets $8k-$10k for a 3.2 depending on mileage.

Headstuds worry me on a used 3.2, that's why I choose to rebuild my 3.0. But if you didnt have a motor, purchasing a 3.2, replacing the headstuds, valvejob and re-sealing the topend is not a bad route to go. Shouldn't cost too much.

I've never heard of a head stud problem with a 3.2. There are rare cases of valve guides and rod bolt problems. My motor has at least 150k miles on it and it's never been opened. Still has good compression, doesn't smoke or leak.
Interesting... I just googled it and broken head studs are showing up on high mileage 3.2 motors. Ah well... Nothing lasts forever except maybe the earth and sky!! lol

Head studs are a common issue on the high milage 3.0-3.2, but unlike the mag cases that pull the stud out of the case, the dilvalar (sp?) studs are known to just snap.
Good news is it is most times an easy fix during a top end job.
3.0 have stronger rods, the 3.2 has been known on occasion to throw a rod.
Valve guides are not rare what so ever and must be serviced/replaced during a top end service.

The 3.2 is a real good engine and has a excellent FI system, but never be sucked into the complacency of thinking it's a perfect, bullet proof engine.
All versions of the /6 engines have strengths and weaknesses.

We were putting a 3.2 on an engine stand one day and a head stud snapped and it shot up 2 feet and fell on the floor. No one had touched the stud and none of the others had broken. It was getting a rebuild anyway but still....

We just rebuilt a 3.6, 2 days ago with 4 broken head studs.

[J P Stein]

Built properly, a 2,7L is a decent motor. MY old 2.7L had 205hp at the wheels.
I built it in 2000 then refreshened it 2007( and added 10:1 Mahles......got a NOS set for half price.....still not cheap). It was strictly an AX motor and spent a good part of its life bouncing off the rev limiter. (7200-7300 rpm depending. Try that with a T-4.)

I sold the car in 2011 (IIRC) and the motor was at the top of it's game. The new owner sold the engine for $8K. That said, the 3.0 L is a better motor.....with the 2.7 you have to be good......and lucky. We had 1 DNF in 12 years of Axing.......an electrical fault.

The days of an inexpensive 6 into a 914 swap are over. Pick your poison.

T-4 are shit, unreliable, and have no grunt, even when compared with a mag case 6.

[Mark Henry]

We were putting a 3.2 on an engine stand one day and a head stud snapped and it shot up 2 feet and fell on the floor. No one had touched the stud and none of the others had broken. It was getting a rebuild anyway but still....

We just rebuilt a 3.6, 2 days ago with 4 broken head studs.

No surprise, stick a magnet on it, I bet it doesn't stick. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Dilavar

Dilavar studs are used on the aluminum cylinders.

So on head studs you could replace with OE steel studs $250/24 or aftermarket studs from $500 to $640/24 or new dilavar studs at over $1100/24
Funny the bird say 24pcs but IIRC only the bottom studs are dilavar.

Big debates on which of the aftermarkets are better, some purists still say the dilators are the best even with the issues.
One thing is you can't do twin plug with the factory barrel nuts.
I personally have used the ARP and wasn't overly impressed, I used Supertec studs on my 3.0 build.

[0396]

One thing is you can't do twin plug with the factory barrel nuts.

Please educate me, my 3.2 has twin plugs?

[Mark Henry]

That is performance build right?

I'm not sure but maybe a 12mm plug can sneak in there, no way on a full size plug. I prefer the full size plug then all the plugs are the same.
You might be able to use a different nut, never really checked into it.

BTW I offer twin plug service on 3.0-3.6 heads and I never break fins (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)