Rebuild a 2.7L or 3.0L six motor, which is cheaper? Options

[Mark Henry]

Just an FYI I think I know of a 3.2 that's coming up for sale in Toronto.

No details yet, but as long as I'm being paid you know a posable PPI guy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

I asked the guy to list it here in the FS section.

[J P Stein]

Well, golly.....
Spend a little time on the Pelican 911 engine rebuild forum.....about 6-8 months ought to do it. There were several fellas (years ago) that were building engines and not trying to sell ya something. It takes some research just to understand WTF they are trying to tell you.

Yes, there are a bunch of special tools needed and a Tech manual. I've sold mine for about what I paid for them.....about 15 years ago. Engine build authors of late, are trying to sell books......IMO, about 30% of the "opinions" are pure BS used to cover their asses.....

Line boring a mag case is a waste of money. If a drag hone won't clean it up......shit can it. It will re-warp as soon as you heat it up, regardless.....but if it makes you feel better......Bruce Anderson has passed but his words have not.(that is a hint)

Studs, case savers, et al have their champions....make you own choice. The proof will be in the pudding.

I, like every one else, have an opinion & you'll find more on Pelican....

Pudding pics.....it ain't rocket science.



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[JmuRiz]

But then we'd have to deal with Canadians (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
A good deal on a known-good 3.2 is the way to go! More umph is only some headers and a Steve Wong chip away.

[Mark Henry]

But then we'd have to deal with Canadians (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
A good deal on a known-good 3.2 is the way to go! More umph is only some headers and a Steve Wong chip away.

yeh but....The Canuck buck is real low right now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I have no idea on the engine, I've also met the owner for a few minutes at a show if I'm thinking of the right guy. So no affiliation.

[Catorse]

I have about 18K in my unfinsihed 2.7 (still waiting to be re-assembled while I finish painting the car). The usual stuff, Competition Engineering machining, cams by Daugherty, Weber 40s, re-nikasiled pistons, etc. etc etc.

And I do all my own work, not including machining or cam grinding. It's expensive...

[raynekat]

I have about 18K in my unfinsihed 2.7 (still waiting to be re-assembled while I finish painting the car). The usual stuff, Competition Engineering machining, cams by Daugherty, Weber 40s, re-nikasiled pistons, etc. etc etc.

And I do all my own work, not including machining or cam grinding. It's expensive...

There you go.....
18k in an unfinished motor.
That should scare the whiz out of most sane people.
I'm telling you 911 rebuilds are not for the faint of heart.
Up to you if you believe me or not.
Bring loads of cash....and you better know what you're doing when you're conversing with your engine builder.

Wish you luck.
There really is nothing better than a sweet running Porsche 911 six cylinder engine.

[Mark Henry]

But then we'd have to deal with Canadians (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
A good deal on a known-good 3.2 is the way to go! More umph is only some headers and a Steve Wong chip away.

yeh but....The Canuck buck is real low right now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I have no idea on the engine, I've also met the owner for a few minutes at a show if I'm thinking of the right guy. So no affiliation.

I talked to the guy. Sounds like a reasonable dude, he want's me to look it over first as he has absolutely no history on it at all. Also has some other stuff, but it needs to be sorted.
He doesn't want to sell to a speculator, but he still wants a fair price.

Likely it may take a while, but will let the faithful know. He's going to pop by here over the next few weeks.

[billh1963]

Just to add some recent real world experience, here is a copy of the bill for my 2.7 rebuild from the past fall. Notice the cost for cams is not shown. I provided 2.7 RS cams. $13,000 plus cams

[mb911]

Prices have gone up without a doubt bearings are almost a grand alone. And gasket sets are not cheap either along pistons and cylinders and you are in for almost 5-6 k. That said if you diy you can build it without taking out a second mortgage.. Wait for the deals just like Mark said be patient and you can still be cost effective.

[DBCooper]

Good God, a grand for bearings? That's Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous stuff. If nothing else this thread has increased the value of already-converted cars. Or maybe just increased the horror of anyone with a conversion car thinking he's going to be needing a rebuild in the foreseeable future. I know it's definitely increased my affection for my own car.

[Justinp71]

Just to add some recent real world experience, here is a copy of the bill for my 2.7 rebuild from the past fall. Notice the cost for cams is not shown. I provided 2.7 RS cams. $13,000 plus cams

Bill that looks pretty fair considering all the work they are doing

Curious- What is $1,200 for "big bore"? and $665 for "Bore for oversize oil pressure pistons"?

Also is engine assembly included with that bill?

[0396]

I'm sure this tread has opened many folks eyes on the cost of building an "reliable " - 6 engine from those that have been there / done that.
Yes, one can wait for deals - I used to do that too.
But as the years roll on, do you want to simply look at your project waiting for that deal when prices keep on going up?
Looking back, I should have bought the 914 6 GT that Seinfeld currently owns when I actually touch and looked it over way way back.
So what my little mind thinking, play within your budget and hopefully a great deal will come up in your lifetime. ..but by then are you still interested and are able to enjoy your / our hobby ?

[Mark Henry]

That said if you diy you can build it without taking out a second mortgage.. Wait for the deals just like Mark said be patient and you can still be cost effective.

One huge caveat on this

You really must do your homework and research to do this. Plus have a build plan so you know what to buy.

A 911 engine can be built a thousand ways, so that means there's about ten thousand ways to buy the wrong shit and do things wrong.

This is no Type 4 build, buy the wrong stuff and it will be an expensive mistake that you will get stuck with. A lot of stuff is incompatible with other stuff, you can't just go willy-nilly fly cutting heads, OS bearings are a fortune, you have to know what you are looking for, etc., etc.

[billh1963]

Just to add some recent real world experience, here is a copy of the bill for my 2.7 rebuild from the past fall. Notice the cost for cams is not shown. I provided 2.7 RS cams. $13,000 plus cams

Bill that looks pretty fair considering all the work they are doing

Curious- What is $1,200 for "big bore"? and $665 for "Bore for oversize oil pressure pistons"?

Also is engine assembly included with that bill?

The mechanic is Belgian...so some of his terminology gets awkward

Big Bore was recoating/machining the cylinders

The other one was having to machine the oil pressure relief valve(s) cylinders

That cost was all in....including oil change and valve adjustment at 500 miles (done) and another one at 3000 miles (coming up this summer).

[J P Stein]

Note the Mahle PCs in the previous pics.
10:1 compression & std 2.7L bore. NOS & I got em' for half price.......couldn't have afforded them otherwise. That was about 2007.

A the time, Andial had them listed at 4600 bucks.(approx). As I wrote previously, the inexpensive days are over......but back then, it was worth every nickel. I have no idea what the tab is now.

The 9.7:1 pistons of my tired engine were pretty damn nice for 7 years of running....both street & AX. These sold quick ( A set of 6) for about 700 bucks.

[mepstein]

2.7's get pricey if you are ditching the cis and need to buy a set of carbs and then have to get them rebuilt. If you just stick with cis your putting a lot of money into a sort of mild hp 6 and might still need to spend $700-1k on the cis injection.

[0396]

JP,
I've always been impressed with your thoughts and the selection of quality parts that you post for your builds.
I have a few questions regarding the pictures from above.
I noticed that the rods were never touch as in balancing. But I did notice that some rods had a different color to them. Did you gather many sets and got as close as possible to complete a set? Also, I noticed that you don't knife the crank.
Is that another school of thought? I do know that Porsche Motorsports doesn't knife their cranks too.
Keep up with the great work.

[Mark Henry]

Note the Mahle PCs in the previous pics.
10:1 compression & std 2.7L bore. NOS & I got em' for half price.......couldn't have afforded them otherwise. That was about 2007.

A the time, Andial had them listed at 4600 bucks.(approx). As I wrote previously, the inexpensive days are over......but back then, it was worth every nickel. I have no idea what the tab is now.

The 9.7:1 pistons of my tired engine were pretty damn nice for 7 years of running....both street & AX. These sold quick ( A set of 6) for about 700 bucks.

Good luck finding deals on a Mahle P&C kit now, good luck finding Malhe performance set period.
Just posting a pic on Pelican got me a $5K offer on my 3.0 set. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-26-1395582448.jpg)

I wouldn't knife edge a crank unless you are full race, really not worth it.

[boxsterfan]

Wow what a thread!!! Maybe I should consider a Subaru motor instead?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/hide.gif)

Reading through all of this, it is my guess that it would be $10-12K for a rebuild of a 2.7/3.0L /6 motor. Plus, I would have to acquire said motor (hopefully in decent shape) for another $10K plus or minus a couple G's. To make it more fun, I would like try to convert it to megasquirt that would only add to the cost. Of course, I would get to sell any unused parts and likely sell my old /4 motor. Note: Although some of you could build your own motor, I just don't have the time or skills to do that. Doing so would definitely help on the $$$$$ side but given my skills the motor would blow up pretty quick. In other words, know your limits and I definitely know mine.

All that being said, this was exploratory for me and the information by members here is outstanding. I think my wallet still says build the 2270 /4 with ITB's, megasquirt and tangerine's boxed header.

[J P Stein]

JP,
I've always been impressed with your thoughts and the selection of quality parts that you post for your builds.
I have a few questions regarding the pictures from above.
I noticed that the rods were never touch as in balancing. But I did notice that some rods had a different color to them. Did you gather many sets and got as close as possible to complete a set? Also, I noticed that you don't knife the crank.
Is that another school of thought? I do know that Porsche Motorsports doesn't knife their cranks too.
Keep up with the great work.

The rods (& crank) were right out of a good running engine then reinstalled...in order, of course. The original motor (shortblock) was from a 76 911 (IIRC) it came off a shelf, having been rebuilt about 10 years before .(all history was verbal)....the cost to me was $500. It got torn down and was in decent shape, considering. The rod's histories were unknown, they looked to be factory balanced.....I think the "colors" you see are from the lighting. The crank was stock. The cams Solex were one NOS and one reground by Weber....a couple hundred bucks.....that grind was the cat's ass for AX.

Bought a set of Webers that were sitting on another shelf for 10 years for 800 from a friend for . I rebuilt em'........they were nice and learned to tune em'( no small chore, it took me about 6 months to get em' spot on.) That is worth it's own thread.

I set the revlimiter as high as 7300 but mostly set at 7100......knife edge? why? That combo also makes a great street motor. The stock Porsche balancing is top notch.

You may be reading about a long streak of luck........I'll take it. I took a lot of advise about the builds......from folks I had learned to trust. It didn't happen over night....I originally put a 2.4L in the car, but wanted more power......did a lot of networking with nice guys. I was happy with the outcome.....the engine was happy also.

I sold all my Porsche stuff and bought a 65 FB Mustang...got fed up with that & bought a Miata. My wrenchin' days are over. Nice talkin' to you.