Rebuild a 2.7L or 3.0L six motor, which is cheaper? Options

[BeatNavy]

Wow what a thread!!! Maybe I should consider a Subaru motor instead?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/hide.gif)

Reading through all of this, it is my guess that it would be $10-12K for a rebuild of a 2.7/3.0L /6 motor. Plus, I would have to acquire said motor (hopefully in decent shape) for another $10K plus or minus a couple G's. To make it more fun, I would like try to convert it to megasquirt that would only add to the cost. Of course, I would get to sell any unused parts and likely sell my old /4 motor. Note: Although some of you could build your own motor, I just don't have the time or skills to do that. Doing so would definitely help on the $$$$$ side but given my skills the motor would blow up pretty quick. In other words, know your limits and I definitely know mine.

All that being said, this was exploratory for me and the information by members here is outstanding. I think my wallet still says build the 2270 /4 with ITB's, megasquirt and tangerine's boxed header.

This is great thread with fantastic info for those wondering where to go. I've learned a ton.

I'm still thinking along the same lines as you (2270/megasquirt) for the same reasons, although that's not exactly "dirt cheap" either. At least you know your limits. I'm not always aware of mine... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Good luck whichever way you go.

[boxsterfan]

Wow what a thread!!! Maybe I should consider a Subaru motor instead?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/hide.gif)

Reading through all of this, it is my guess that it would be $10-12K for a rebuild of a 2.7/3.0L /6 motor. Plus, I would have to acquire said motor (hopefully in decent shape) for another $10K plus or minus a couple G's. To make it more fun, I would like try to convert it to megasquirt that would only add to the cost. Of course, I would get to sell any unused parts and likely sell my old /4 motor. Note: Although some of you could build your own motor, I just don't have the time or skills to do that. Doing so would definitely help on the $$$$$ side but given my skills the motor would blow up pretty quick. In other words, know your limits and I definitely know mine.

All that being said, this was exploratory for me and the information by members here is outstanding. I think my wallet still says build the 2270 /4 with ITB's, megasquirt and tangerine's boxed header.

This is great thread with fantastic info for those wondering where to go. I've learned a ton.

I'm still thinking along the same lines as you (2270/megasquirt) for the same reasons, although that's not exactly "dirt cheap" either. At least you know your limits. I'm not always aware of mine... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Good luck whichever way you go.

Yeah, anything around (hopefully to the plus side of these) of 150-160 HP/150-160 ft.lbs torque is going to be a nice jump from a stock 2.0L. Plus, I plan on staying with the narrow body on the chassis although I would have been open to rolling the fenders just a bit if i had to get some bigger tires under there for the additional horsepower that would come with a /6.

Now back to my research on air conditioning systems for my 914....

[J P Stein]

Nowdays, Subie is the way to go IMO.
MY ex-co-driver bought my race car and went with a JDM Subie along with some engine performance mods. He now has power in abundance. 12inch radial slicks have trouble dealing with it. Such extreme measures are not necessary for "normal" folks.

The cost of that swap are less than half the cost of Porsche power.......and you can get MORE.....the T-4 is a POS and the old 911 motor is obsolete .The biggest problem is transmission. He went with a 930 box with a flipped ring gear......which ain't cheep. He also solved the 914's front suspension
by shitcanning the whole works and going to an Elise set up.

Other trans are an option, but I don't know enough about them.

His car is now killer.

[boxsterfan]

Nowdays, Subie is the way to go IMO.
MY ex-co-driver bought my race car and went with a JDM Subie along with some engine performance mods. He now has power in abundance. 12inch radial slicks have trouble dealing with it. Such extreme measures are not necessary for "normal" folks.

The cost of that swap are less than half the cost of Porsche power.......and you can get MORE.....the T-4 is a POS.The biggest problem is transmission. He went with a 930 box with a flipped ring gear......which ain't cheep. He also solved the 914's front suspension
by shitcanning the whole works and going to an Elise set up.

Other trans are an option, but I don't know enough about them.

His car is now killer.

That car looks like a track killer. I'm building a street car though for spirited driving and Cars and Coffee. I think the Subie conversions are great, but I am concerned a little about resale value. To be honest, I'm not sure why I am concerned about resale value because I have zero plans of ever selling my 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I should probably drink more.

[J P Stein]

Hay, it's just a shitbox (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[billh1963]

Wow what a thread!!! Maybe I should consider a Subaru motor instead?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/hide.gif)

Reading through all of this, it is my guess that it would be $10-12K for a rebuild of a 2.7/3.0L /6 motor. Plus, I would have to acquire said motor (hopefully in decent shape) for another $10K plus or minus a couple G's. To make it more fun, I would like try to convert it to megasquirt that would only add to the cost. Of course, I would get to sell any unused parts and likely sell my old /4 motor. Note: Although some of you could build your own motor, I just don't have the time or skills to do that. Doing so would definitely help on the $$$$$ side but given my skills the motor would blow up pretty quick. In other words, know your limits and I definitely know mine.

All that being said, this was exploratory for me and the information by members here is outstanding. I think my wallet still says build the 2270 /4 with ITB's, megasquirt and tangerine's boxed header.

You can buy a good running 911 engine for $10K or less if you look around. You can even buy a rebuilt one for under $15K...just shop.

If you are just looking for more horsepower, torque, lower cost, etc. then there are MANY engine options out there. However, if you want a Porsche 6 (sounds, heritage, etc.), nothing else will do. Only you can answer that question.

Also, there is one thing to keep in mind. A good running 911 engine will hold it's value over any other engine choice out there. Also, a well done 914-6 conversion with a 911 engine will command much more money in resale versus a similar prepared conversion with a Subaru or other engine.

[Mark Henry]

Ho-Kay then .... moving along....

Another rebuild tip, Don't toss that Number 8 bearing If it fits smoothly on the journal and has no rocking, it is likely still within spec.

Two brand new 964 #8 bearing, one from Vertex and I believe the other one was from the Bird were way out of spec in the ID like something outrageous 1mm (.040, maybe only half that, but it was crazy out of spec.).
They may have fixed this issue by now, but I'd check your tolerances very carefully.

I checked my old bearing OD and ID and they were within spec, so I did the DFL treatment on it and reused it.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/images.thesamba.com-26-1455820228.1.jpg)

[Mark Henry]

Turn up the sound (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPEaNcOiLi8

[billh1963]

Turn up the sound (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPEaNcOiLi8

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
Awesome!!

If you want that Porsche 6 sound, only one engine will do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[Justinp71]

If you want fast and less expensive subaru or LS1 is probably the ticket. But there is something really awesome about keeping it all in the family. Like a car that Porsche could have built if they wanted to (and I like chevy motors).

As for P&C's you can purchase JE pistons for less than $1k. There was older reports of them being louder (had piston slap, I think?) but the they have them in tolerance now. No problems with them on my rebuild. If your motor has nikasil cylinders you can rebuild them, if you have alusil EBS racing can rebuild and nikasil plate them like new for a reasonable cost.

[Mark Henry]

As for P&C's you can purchase JE pistons for less than $1k. There was older reports of them being louder (had piston slap, I think?) but the they have them in tolerance now. No problems with them on my rebuild. If your motor has nikasil cylinders you can rebuild them, if you have alusil EBS racing can rebuild and nikasil plate them like new for a reasonable cost.

Ok on cylinders, pretty close, but not 100%, so here's my .02cents

Nikasil
-sometimes you can just wash them with Comet cleaner
-sometimes you can hone them with silicon carbide (SC), this is not really honing, it's more de-glazing
-If you can feel a wave, where a ring ridge would be on a steel cylinder, they need to be replated.
-always check with a bore gauge, they are known to fish-mouth or bell-mouth.
-There are 6 different size groups, so you can't mix and match cylinders willy-nilly.
Replating costs $1100 to $1200
-you can plate nikasil or alusil cylinders, some say the Alusil core is better.
-on a 3.0 the 3.2 cylinder core (no grove) is a slightly better choice .

JE or Mahle pistons (I don't think KS but may be wrong)
JE are sloppy (tolerance) cold, they expand more
Mahle are high tolerance cold

Alusil
-mixed views on reuse,
-special rings,
-Dr Evil was successful rehoning them and knows the process.
-stock alusil pistons only, I believe these are Kolbenschmidt KS.

Yeh...,I've done a shitlaod of research on building certain /6 engines, built many of my own tools, bought wrong shit, bought right shit, spent way too much money....

[billh1963]

Some good threads on JE pistons.... I read a lot before I went with them on my rebuild

JE Pistons - Pelican Parts - Wayne at Pelican and Charles Navarro of LN Engineering contributing

JE Longevity

More...

[Mark Henry]

Some good threads on JE pistons.... I read a lot before I went with them on my rebuild

JE Pistons - Pelican Parts - Wayne at Pelican and Charles Navarro of LN Engineering contributing

JE Longevity

More...

Yep I have nothing against JE's, I have them in my '67 bug

I think somewhere in that mess Charles says that JE's are better in LN nickies and Mahle in OE cylinders, but personally I thought it was just to appease the mahle crowd. There may be slightly longer wear with the Mahle.
I don't want to read that mess again right now.

The only real reason I went with Mahle is I got them for almost the same price as the JE's and they are quality kit. End of story.

[Catorse]

The question of value came up earlier in the thread. So as stated, I have 18K in the motor alone, and it's not an insane build by any stretch. I feel - MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION - that a well built 6 in a well executed 914 is a solid car from a value proposition as well as resale. I just repainted my car, and every nut and bolt has been reconditioned to be as new.

I built the 914-6 I feel that Porsche would have built, and my car is a mix of Rebel Racing, Tangerine, PMB, and many other names you all know from here.

I have 42K in my build total, including the price of the car, which I paid $2600 for. I do ALL my own work - that is, I am building the motor, and I painted the car myself. besides machine shop fees, no other outside expenses were incurred.

You could not duplicate my car for 80K if someone else did the work. So I feel that a 914 with a REAL Porsche motor is a solid investment even though I have no intentions of selling - Ever.

And I own 3 other Porsches including a 356B.

Keep it in the family. I have other non-Porsches as well. But my Porsches will always have Porsche motors.

[ThePaintedMan]

...and for many of us that is a dream we share. But my dream was also just to own a 914. At 31, I consider myself lucky to have accomplished that. And I hope that you won't look down on me for taking a rusted out shell that most would have abandoned, sinking what little disposable income I have into it in the form of a Subaru 6, and at least giving it a second lease on life.

[Justinp71]

Turn up the sound (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPEaNcOiLi8

This car is just freakin awesome all around. Love those smooth steel flares too!

[0396]

Nowdays, Subie is the way to go IMO.
MY ex-co-driver bought my race car and went with a JDM Subie along with some engine performance mods. He now has power in abundance. 12inch radial slicks have trouble dealing with it. Such extreme measures are not necessary for "normal" folks.

The cost of that swap are less than half the cost of Porsche power.......and you can get MORE.....the T-4 is a POS and the old 911 motor is obsolete .The biggest problem is transmission. He went with a 930 box with a flipped ring gear......which ain't cheep. He also solved the 914's front suspension
by shitcanning the whole works and going to an Elise set up.

Other trans are an option, but I don't know enough about them.

His car is now killer.

I saw your ex- co driver's car while it was being worked on in Buena Park in the LA area. ..you two have killer cars.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[eeyore]

When I hear of 5 digit air-cooled 6 rebuilds, I start looking for used 'Metzger' GT2 and GT3 motors on eBay...

[Mark Henry]

When I hear of 5 digit air-cooled 6 rebuilds, I start looking for used 'Metzger' GT2 and GT3 motors on eBay...

Have you looked at the prices of 911 engines on ebay lately?

[Catorse]

LOL, GT3 motor. That would cost you 35K minimum. GT2?????/ Unobtainium man....