considering 914 race car Options

[Bill's Racing 914]

might want to check this one out as its a little more "complete" and a little fuhraze

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/cto/5625228746.html

^^^ That thing does seem to have potential. The quality of the cage and of course the true overall rust situation dictate if it's a steal or a bottomless pit.

I wondered what all the louvers in the front bonnet were for but I see it's for transmission cooling! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

That hood would not be legal for any vintage venue. They may be thinking about drafting air out for a front mounted oil cooler. The only thing going for this car is that it has a roll cage and has the interior stripped out...The roll cage must be 1.5in dia DOM steel with greater than .095 wall.....you will spend much more time working on this car than driving it. The only thing good is that it will cost $1600 to $2000 to have a cage welded in. So for $3000, it is a good start. But you also will need a fuel cel, and a fire system and a seat..etc.

[campbellcj]

^^^ Much wisdom and good advice ^^^

I would also add to NOT underestimate/underbudget things like transmission(s) and consumables i.e., tires, fuel, brakes. I have built my car to the point that it costs a fortune to run and that is now limiting how often I get to play. I made my own bed so to speak and don't regret it but not everyone would/should/could go that far down the slope.

I really do believe in learning the ropes and seeing if you truly have the passion, with a smaller slower cheaper car like a stock-ish 914-4 or Miata or 944 or Boxster... I ran 90HP CI-class -4 for many years then a 130-140HP small -6, both narrowbody with pump gas and 205 width DOT-R tires. That is a LOT of fun and far easier to get into and out of than the more modified classes.

[Bill's Racing 914]

^^^ Much wisdom and good advice ^^^

I would also add to NOT underestimate/underbudget things like transmission(s) and consumables i.e., tires, fuel, brakes. I have built my car to the point that it costs a fortune to run and that is now limiting how often I get to play. I made my own bed so to speak and don't regret it but not everyone would/should/could go that far down the slope.

I really do believe in learning the ropes and seeing if you truly have the passion, with a smaller slower cheaper car like a stock-ish 914-4 or Miata or 944 or Boxster... I ran 90HP CI-class -4 for many years then a 130-140HP small -6, both narrowbody with pump gas and 205 width DOT-R tires. That is a LOT of fun and far easier to get into and out of than the more modified classes.

I 100% agree. I run a 1.6L Miata and have driven a 1.8L Miata on an endurance team up in NORCAL. There is a reason why half the field in Cal Club SCCA are Miatas...they are cheap and highly reliable I beat the crap out of mine and it just keeps going......if you want to spend more time on the track driving than working on a car...than answer is: "Get a MIATA!" And you don't have to run in $$Spec Maita$$ which can get very expensive...Again the SCCA took a SPEC class and got stupid..... Go get a used Miata for $1500, do nothing to the engine, put in a roll cage and fire system(you don't need a fuel cel since the gas tank is forward of the rear axles..this saves $750) and you can run in ITA, Fprod, etc. I run mine in the new Club Racer class in VARA. I am doing the first complete engine build after 1 1/2 years of running it.......I spent several years working on and owning British cars...they cars are much too fragile. So are 914's.

[Bill's Racing 914]

^^^ Much wisdom and good advice ^^^

I would also add to NOT underestimate/underbudget things like transmission(s) and consumables i.e., tires, fuel, brakes. I have built my car to the point that it costs a fortune to run and that is now limiting how often I get to play. I made my own bed so to speak and don't regret it but not everyone would/should/could go that far down the slope.

I really do believe in learning the ropes and seeing if you truly have the passion, with a smaller slower cheaper car like a stock-ish 914-4 or Miata or 944 or Boxster... I ran 90HP CI-class -4 for many years then a 130-140HP small -6, both narrowbody with pump gas and 205 width DOT-R tires. That is a LOT of fun and far easier to get into and out of than the more modified classes.

campbellcj,

So I can run my stock 1.7L at 6500 RPM and not worry about throwing a rod or cracking a piston? Are they fairly robust in the stock config? I would like to race the car at VARA Rennsport at Buttonwillow this Aug.

Also, I am used to the short shift throw of a Formula Fod and the Miata. The 914 shift is like driving a VW bus. So the reason why I put in the side shift. I hated that tail shift. I may get the Short Shift kit from Auto Atlanta too.

Bill;

[ThePaintedMan]

There is no need to spin a stock 1.7 up to 6500 RPMs. They fall flat on their face after 5000. Even an engine with a nice cam in it really won't ever need to spin that fast, until you get into some serious headwork, valvetrain mods, etc.

I ran a bone stock 1.8 at Sebring with some of the guys here on the board in the middle of the Summer, didn't even have an external oil cooler and the motor did just fine. In fact the only problems we had were stupidity on my part with a rocker pivot shaft nut that came off and a clutch that was way too old to have been on the car. Put the nut back on the pivot shaft stud and changed the clutch and we drove the piss out of it for 10 hours. I haven't even bothered to change the oil since then - it never got above 210.

[Bill's Racing 914]

There is no need to spin a stock 1.7 up to 6500 RPMs. They fall flat on their face after 5000. Even an engine with a nice cam in it really won't ever need to spin that fast, until you get into some serious headwork, valvetrain mods, etc.

I ran a bone stock 1.8 at Sebring with some of the guys here on the board in the middle of the Summer, didn't even have an external oil cooler and the motor did just fine. In fact the only problems we had were stupidity on my part with a rocker pivot shaft nut that came off and a clutch that was way too old to have been on the car. Put the nut back on the pivot shaft stud and changed the clutch and we drove the piss out of it for 10 hours. I haven't even bothered to change the oil since then - it never got above 210.

Thanks for the input. That is good to know. I feel better about taking it out. I may do a track day then take it to Rennsport at Buttonwillow.

210 on the oil, that is excellent. I hear these 2.0L guys at talking about going to 300F at Willow Springs. I called the tech guys at one of the oil companies who told me not to go above 220.....that the sweet spot is 210. After that you get serious viscosity breakdown. So the reason why I put the large RX-7 oil cooler in the nose.

I run my Miata water temp at 190. I really don't like going above that. 210 and it boils...and steam is a really bad heat conductor. And I runt he piss out of my motor too. It is pretty much stock.

[brant]

I hope you cut open that rx7 cooler and gutted the thermostat

[Bill's Racing 914]

I hope you cut open that rx7 cooler and gutted the thermostat

No I did not ....what's the downside if I don't?

[Bill's Racing 914]

Hi everyone,
This is my first post on your excellent forum. I've owned 914s in the past, but none at the moment. Have spent my time tangled up in British cars, so I don't know much about the air-cooled world... thought I am now pretty familiar with electrical fires! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I've been keeping my eye out for a built nearly-there vintage race car and found this:

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/5578045362.html

Apparently it was campaigned in SoCal as a 6, but is now fitted with a 4. Owner says car runs and drives, but it's unclear what's been done inside the engine. Also unclear who raced it and in what class (apparently it was silver with blue wheels). This weekend I'll be able to go over it more fully with the owner, but I did drop by and check it out at the shop where it's stored. The car is in very nice shape: no rust or rot, good rubber, linkage, very quality glass work with no damage, etc. Fuel cell and harness would need replacing and drivetrain would need a rebuild I'm sure.

So, I've got a couple questions I'd love input on:

1) Do any of you know this car?

2) $5500 seems like a pretty good deal, am I wrong?

3) The car's had a 6 before and is ready to take another, but it looks like those engines are prohibitively expensive (for me). Are the 4cyl cars competitive? Assuming the engine that's in there isn't already tuned, how much do these engines need to be competitive? Is it worth keeping the 4 at all? (I've seen a few discussions on this topic but there seems to be some disagreement)

I should mention that I have not done any racing yet but would like to get into it. It does seem like this car would qualify for several of the series considering it's been raced already.

I'll be going to see the car more fully this weekend, but would appreciate your thoughts so I know what to ask and look for.

Spence

Here's another one local to you. You would have to do a complete tear down considering the condition.. the parts alone are worth more than they are asking. look like it needs a fire system and a new fuel cel. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/5646512874.html

[brant]

I hope you cut open that rx7 cooler and gutted the thermostat

No I did not ....what's the downside if I don't?

It's a restriction to cooling
Also a restriction to oil volume (a bottleneck)
Possibly motor/oiling problems....
(Restrictions for any potential dry sump motor combined with a long oil pathway... a receipt for motor failure)

Not a fan of rx7 coolers
They can be cut open and TIG welded. Hopefully without contaminating the system
But used coolers are always risky and should be avoided.

I'm partial to fluidyne coolers
Race motors are too expensive to cut corners in the oil system

[Jetsetsurfshop]

I hope you cut open that rx7 cooler and gutted the thermostat

No I did not ....what's the downside if I don't?

It's a restriction to cooling
Also a restriction to oil volume (a bottleneck)
Possibly motor/oiling problems....

Not a fan of rx7 coolers
They can be cut open and TIG welded. But used coolers are always risky and should be avoided

I agree with Brant here. I'd be worried about the integrity of a used part that is important to the race car. Cooling the oil is only second to safety in my opinion when it comes to the track. If you do it right you can run 210-215 degrees for 14 hours in Florida with crazy drivers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
Brant's installation is super slick. Mine is more traditional, but I think we both have Mocal coolers. I bought mine through BAT in the Tampa area. Theres tons of sizes there.

Do it once and do it right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif)

[Bill's Racing 914]

I hope you cut open that rx7 cooler and gutted the thermostat

No I did not ....what's the downside if I don't?

It's a restriction to cooling
Also a restriction to oil volume (a bottleneck)
Possibly motor/oiling problems....

Not a fan of rx7 coolers
They can be cut open and TIG welded. But used coolers are always risky and should be avoided

I agree with Brant here. I'd be worried about the integrity of a used part that is important to the race car. Cooling the oil is only second to safety in my opinion when it comes to the track. If you do it right you can run 210-215 degrees for 14 hours in Florida with crazy drivers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
Brant's installation is super slick. Mine is more traditional, but I think we both have Mocal coolers. I bought mine through BAT in the Tampa area. Theres tons of sizes there.

Do it once and do it right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif)

Thanks guys for the help ont he oil cooler.....I inspected it pretty well and it looks clean. I also took apart the thermostat. I agree..it should be plugged.

[campbellcj]

I agree on the redline/longevity of the -4's and definitely with the stock-ish 2.0 and 2.4 -4's I ran long ago, there was no point going over 5600 or somewhere thereabouts. I moved to a -6 in 2004 as I did not see the Type4 powerplant providing the power, longevity and driver experience I wanted longer-term. (My current -6 FWIW makes peak power around 7500 and safely revs to 8000).

Oil cooling is extra critical around here (desert climate). My current car actually has an oversized Mazda race cooler bought new from their motorsports division, with AN-12 lines a Troutman thermostat and a huge custom duct/shroud setup. I actually have to block off the front bumper intake to allow the car get warm enough in the cooler months...

[Bill's Racing 914]

I agree on the redline/longevity of the -4's and definitely with the stock-ish 2.0 and 2.4 -4's I ran long ago, there was no point going over 5600 or somewhere thereabouts. I moved to a -6 in 2004 as I did not see the Type4 powerplant providing the power, longevity and driver experience I wanted longer-term. (My current -6 FWIW makes peak power around 7500 and safely revs to 8000).

Oil cooling is extra critical around here (desert climate). My current car actually has an oversized Mazda race cooler bought new from their motorsports division, with AN-12 lines a Troutman thermostat and a huge custom duct/shroud setup. I actually have to block off the front bumper intake to allow the car get warm enough in the cooler months...

This is my oil cooler install. I used AN-10 lines.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=273591

[Bill's Racing 914]

I agree on the redline/longevity of the -4's and definitely with the stock-ish 2.0 and 2.4 -4's I ran long ago, there was no point going over 5600 or somewhere thereabouts. I moved to a -6 in 2004 as I did not see the Type4 powerplant providing the power, longevity and driver experience I wanted longer-term. (My current -6 FWIW makes peak power around 7500 and safely revs to 8000).

Oil cooling is extra critical around here (desert climate). My current car actually has an oversized Mazda race cooler bought new from their motorsports division, with AN-12 lines a Troutman thermostat and a huge custom duct/shroud setup. I actually have to block off the front bumper intake to allow the car get warm enough in the cooler months...

Go to this link to see my oil cooler install. I used AN-10 lines. Takes forever to heat up standing still. Haven't had it to the track yet to see what happens to the oil temp.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=273591