Best Bushings for my Application?, Oh noes! the choices! Options

[andys]

Lots of good inputs floating around. I think one might ask what your goal is first. I would lobby that a daily driver requires nothing more that a substitute to the original vulcanized rubber bushings. From there, as you step up to the next couple of driving levels or applications, a stiffer bushing would be required for increased control (or less diflection in the bushing). To simply say X is better than Y, leaves out a lot. Determine first your goal, then buy what is best suited....IMO.

Andy

[bernbomb914]

as always, buy the best you can afford

Bernie

[TravisNeff]

QUOTE (Racer Chris @ May 16 2005, 02:06 PM)

I have been offering a rear bushing installation for several years. My process assures a perfect fit. The cost is less than for needle bearing kits including shipping your trailing arms, and I think the performance/quality is comparable if not better.

Chris, I have seen your site and your work looks great. From a performance standpoint I understand what you are saying, are the delrins noisy?

[ChrisFoley]

QUOTE (Travis Neff @ May 17 2005, 02:26 PM)

are the delrins noisy?

I don't have any significant experience with this in a street car, but I can say for sure that they don't squeek at all. It is typical for the Weltmeister bushings to squeek no matter how much effort is put into prepping them.
As far as harshness/road noise I doubt mine are any worse than the needle bearings which are reported to be good in this regard.

[TravisNeff]

Thanks for clarifying that - I did mean squeaky.

I imagine road noise will be road noise on anything but the rubber bushings - which will be the same, but less...

[TGM]

Chris,

I have a question. What is the reason for the grease fitting on the control arm? Do you want the control arm to slide on the bushing O.D.? I figured the bushing should fit snug in the control arm and only rotate about the shaft. From a wear standpoint the ground surface of the shaft inside the bushing would be the best place for rotation to occur. This debate may have already been covered but I'm interested in your answer.

Thanks,

T.G.

[tat2dphreak]

QUOTE (Chris914n6 @ May 16 2005, 05:47 PM)

So what is the likelyhood of getting needle bearings of a 'lesser' quality that I can afford? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) I don't need no super duper steel that will outlast the cars lifespan.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) isn't there a bushing for street drivers? or is the 30-year old rubber our only choices...

[andys]

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ May 17 2005, 06:50 PM)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) isn't there a bushing for street drivers? or is the 30-year old rubber our only choices...

Well, I think most people are focused on the performance due more to what's available rather than what's an adequate replacement. It's not to say that those offerings aren't perhaps an improvement, but nevertheless they aren't the same as a stock replacement. Since the stock replacement is the whole trailing arm with bushings vulcanized in place, it is a rather expensive solution. Hence, we have the present offerings with a performance slant. I'll stand corrected, but I think Weltmeister catalogs a softer bushing as well. The polygraphite one is a 70D durometer. I checked with Energy Suspension Systems. Their PU bushings are 95A durometer (softer) which is harder than the stock rubber, and is commonly used as an upgrade for other-than-Porsche vehicles.

I have experienced the difference in ride quality with a Corvette when replacing the stock rubber with Delrin. In that particular instance, there is no way I would tolerate the resultant ride quality for a daily street driver. It was terribly harsh, and made the car feel real clunky. Every little crease in the road was translated to the chassis. FWIW.

Andy

[ChrisFoley]

QUOTE (TGM @ May 17 2005, 10:36 PM)

What is the reason for the grease fitting on the control arm?

The grease goes through the bushing to grooves in the inner surface where it is spread onto the pivot shaft. You are correct that the bushing should move around the shaft and not in the control arm.
Actually, the fit of my parts is so good that grease doesn't significantly lower friction. It does help prevent moisture from causing the shaft to rust though. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

[ChrisFoley]

QUOTE (andys @ May 17 2005, 11:36 PM)

I have experienced the difference in ride quality with a Corvette when replacing the stock rubber with Delrin. In that particular instance, there is no way I would tolerate the resultant ride quality for a daily street driver. It was terribly harsh, and made the car feel real clunky. Every little crease in the road was translated to the chassis. FWIW.

I think that the pivot bushings in our cars have only a little to do with transmitting road feel to the driver. If you changed out the top strut rubbers for solid material you would definitely experience a harsh ride.

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ May 17 2005, 10:50 PM)

isn't there a bushing for street drivers? or is the 30-year old rubber our only choices...

Dwight Mitchell's NeaTrix bushings for the 911 were excellent street replacement products, but a 911 spring plate is not a 914 trailing arm.

Dwight knows 914's - it was his 2,0 that won the Manhattan Trophy (Best In Show) at a Parade a long time ago.

the materials exist, but the decision to build the trailing arms with molded in place rubber means it's virtually impossible to use the best materials for what you'd want. the same situation exists with the front A-Arms.

to use the material you want, you need an expensive mass-production manufacturing technology. since we need a field-replaceable method, we have to use materials that are suitable.

[Chris914n6]

My rubber bushings just slid out when I pressed out the shaft. Only a bit of residue from where it was 'bonded' to the pieces, but I can't say it really looked like it was bonded, at least not completely.
The broken one had worked its way inward, thus the camber offset.
My wallet says poly - so I'll have to report on the GPR bushings when they come in. The out-of-round on the shaft and housing were not to bad, but a polishing isn't out of the picture.

[anthony]

So here's what you need to do in order to install poly graphite a-arm bushings correctly.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread....threadid=222777

[turbo914v8]

QUOTE (Mueller @ May 16 2005, 01:17 PM)

[/QUOTE] just taking a short hiatus while I build up my funding to buy more parts....I have fronts in stock...Tarret has front and rear in stock. [QUOTE]

Wanted to purchase the complete set form Mueller but it seem he no longer has it. Who is Tarret and how can I get in touch with him. Would like to purchase both front and rear suspension bearing set.

Regards,

Turbo Paul.

[phantom914]

QUOTE (turbo914v8 @ Jun 2 2005, 08:03 AM)

QUOTE (Mueller @ May 16 2005, 01:17 PM) just taking a short hiatus while I build up my funding to buy more parts....I have fronts in stock...Tarret has front and rear in stock. QUOTE Wanted to purchase the complete set form Mueller but it seem he no longer has it. Who is Tarret and how can I get in touch with him. Would like to purchase both front and rear suspension bearing set. Regards, Turbo Paul.

Who Tarret is (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)


Andrew

[turbo914v8]

Thanks (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[rhodyguy]

the neoprene washer is pretty slick in that pelican thread. those little correct foam seals are kinda pricey for what you get (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif) .

k