Bumpers, Stainless steel, Group buy, Gauging interest, $1200/set plus shipping Options

[Tom_T]

No offense Chris HG but it's because of the price of the bumpers that places like AA sale them for is what more then likely led this group down this road. I paid 2,400 dollars for your bumpers from High Performance house in San Francisco and am still pissed off. How about finding a couple reputable vendors....Stoddard or Sierra Madre....who by the way never has them in stock, offer them a exclusive deal with a retail price closer to the 1,200 to 1,400 dollar a set price and I bet you would see a lot more orders. Its not like your paying union wages to get these manufactured in Vietnam.

Coondog,

I thought Rich advertised his SS 914 bumpers as USA made - or used to do so? Has that changed? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Ergo the higher price from HPH than Harrington or AA etc. from Vietnam.

Just curious .... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Dear all,

Thanks for your feedback.

I do agree that Mark sent his original bumper to PTT because the one on the picture is not our original pattern bumper. As PTT does not have a mould for the Porsche 914 bumpers I can assure he bought our faulty bumpers from one of our workers. Sure, we could go to the police but frankly speaking this is a bit of a stretch.

PTT has now a couple of sets and we are not going to do anything about it. The only thing we ensure, is that he will not receive one more set which is pressed out from our mould. Saying this, we just wanted to let you guys know about the situation. Now it’s up to you whether you want to proceed with this group buy or not. You might also consider getting the bumpers from Autoatlanta. They just had a special offer on the bumpers together with the top seals and will likely have it again soon.

Best regards
Christoph

Christoph,

Why don't you contact Mark directly & see what could be worked out with him, & about the other "specials" such as the GT front & early sharp cornered rear bumpers & the 73-74 front & 74 rear with the rubber bumper guards & 2 extra back braces behind them, etc., & his compensation for taking on all of this work to date & what he would lose by leaving PTT????

As it is so far, it really sounds more like you're another vendor hijacking the topic from Mark, where you should really go through him as an alternative negotiated between you two, then come to the group.

While I understand that PTT was perhaps planning to just fulfill Mark's GB order with cleaned up "factory seconds" from Harrington, & all of the industrial espionage, unfair competition, theft & non-disclosure issues that entails - the proper way is to conduct business directly with Mark.

Also, if the PTT plan was to take Harrington's factory seconds to fill Mark's GB sets, then I think that many folks in on the GB may not be happy, & Mark would probably find the quality & fitment problems which made them "seconds" in the first place.

That's my 2 cents worth as a business owner for almost 40 years now.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[burton73]

Dear all,

Thanks for your feedback.

I do agree that Mark sent his original bumper to PTT because the one on the picture is not our original pattern bumper. As PTT does not have a mould for the Porsche 914 bumpers I can assure he bought our faulty bumpers from one of our workers. Sure, we could go to the police but frankly speaking this is a bit of a stretch.

PTT has now a couple of sets and we are not going to do anything about it. The only thing we ensure, is that he will not receive one more set which is pressed out from our mould. Saying this, we just wanted to let you guys know about the situation. Now it’s up to you whether you want to proceed with this group buy or not. You might also consider getting the bumpers from Autoatlanta. They just had a special offer on the bumpers together with the top seals and will likely have it again soon.

Best regards
Christoph

Christoph,

Why don't you contact Mark directly & see what could be worked out with him, & about the other "specials" such as the GT front & early sharp cornered rear bumpers & the 73-74 front & 74 rear with the rubber bumper guards & 2 extra back braces behind them, etc., & his compensation for taking on all of this work to date & what he would lose by leaving PTT????

As it is so far, it really sounds more like you're another vendor hijacking the topic from Mark, where you should really go through him as an alternative negotiated between you two, then come to the group.

While I understand that PTT was perhaps planning to just fulfill Mark's GB order with cleaned up "factory seconds" from Harrington, & all of the industrial espionage, unfair competition, theft & non-disclosure issues that entails - the proper way is to conduct business directly with Mark.

Also, if the PTT plan was to take Harrington's factory seconds to fill Mark's GB sets, then I think that many folks in on the GB may not be happy, & Mark would probably find the quality & fitment problems which made them "seconds" in the first place.

That's my 2 cents worth as a business owner for almost 40 years now.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

Tom for president of the USA. REALY

Bob

[Tom_T]

Tom for president of the USA. REALY

Bob

That would be a very, very bad idea Bob, to have another real estate guy in there! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

.... even if I never shorted my subs & contractors, consultants, etc. - as someone else did regularly & BKed many many projects & deals to short the investors! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Besides, I really really usually don't talk with double adjectives, except for humorous effect! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Maybe we could send Tillerson to negotiate this on behalf of international relations! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

But I'm not clear on whether he'd go to the UK or 'Nam, cuz it's not clear whether Harrington is a UK corp or `Nam!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

If they are a UK corp., then at least Mark is in part of their Commonwealth with whatever legal advantages that imparts (if any), him being in Canada.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Coondog]

No offense Chris HG but it's because of the price of the bumpers that places like AA sale them for is what more then likely led this group down this road. I paid 2,400 dollars for your bumpers from High Performance house in San Francisco and am still pissed off. How about finding a couple reputable vendors....Stoddard or Sierra Madre....who by the way never has them in stock, offer them a exclusive deal with a retail price closer to the 1,200 to 1,400 dollar a set price and I bet you would see a lot more orders. Its not like your paying union wages to get these manufactured in Vietnam.

Coondog,

I thought Rich advertised his SS 914 bumpers as USA made - or used to do so? Has that changed? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Ergo the higher price from HPH than Harrington or AA etc. from Vietnam.

Just curious .... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)




(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

Nope he gets them from Vietnam

[mepstein]

No offense Chris HG but it's because of the price of the bumpers that places like AA sale them for is what more then likely led this group down this road. I paid 2,400 dollars for your bumpers from High Performance house in San Francisco and am still pissed off. How about finding a couple reputable vendors....Stoddard or Sierra Madre....who by the way never has them in stock, offer them a exclusive deal with a retail price closer to the 1,200 to 1,400 dollar a set price and I bet you would see a lot more orders. Its not like your paying union wages to get these manufactured in Vietnam.

Coondog,

I thought Rich advertised his SS 914 bumpers as USA made - or used to do so? Has that changed? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Ergo the higher price from HPH than Harrington or AA etc. from Vietnam.

Just curious .... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)




(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

Nope he gets them from Vietnam

Same with AA. George claimed his were exclusive and not from Harrington group but then an employee let slip the truth. George even dings you for core bumpers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif)

[Tom_T]

Same with AA. George claimed his were exclusive and not from Harrington group but then an employee let slip the truth. George even dings you for core bumpers.

Do you want some cheese & crackers with that whine Epstein!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

George was up front with me from day one that he cut a deal with Harrington to produce them for his company, & paid significant dough for the additional tooling to have them produced for AA as needed. His ARE an exclusive deal with the manufacturer Harrington due to paying all that cash up front for the tooling.

I don't think a core is required to get a single, or set of SS bumpers.

He gets the cores for the restored & rechromed OEM steel bumpers that AA sells.

I think you're confusing the 2 product programs Mark, & are certainly twiting around the facts here! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Also, apparently George is now selling his to Rich at HPH.

From the horse's mouth.

PS - I have confirmed that the bumper cores are NOT required to buy AA's SS bumpers & special kits/sets - period.

However, they will give you a DISCOUNT off the price if you send in your old OE factory bumpers, which they then use to restore or resell as-is to folks needing them.

Hardly a crime, & hardly a cheat, & absolutely misrepresented by you Mark! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

So - do you want to correct yourself on this matter? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[EdwardBlume]

We need Mikey to make these. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[rmdinmd]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am committed to being in with Mark on this group buy. He started this and he will choose which way to go. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[db9146]

"we do not want our bumpers to be sold by him, we will match his price for this group buy"

So PTT is now a competitor with his former employer through circumstances we will likely never fully understand.....but his product has yet to go through the verification process which is substantial. Don't underestimate the effort in this step to get properly fitting bumpers.

Has Harrington's offer been fully considered?

[Krieger]

So, if Harrington is THE source for PTT's bumpers, how long do you think PTT will be in business?

[mepstein]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am committed to being in with Mark on this group buy. He started this and he will choose which way to go. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Yep, it's Mark's baby. I'll send him money when he tells me it's good.

[Mark Henry]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am committed to being in with Mark on this group buy. He started this and he will choose which way to go. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Yep, it's Mark's baby. I'll send him money when he tells me it's good.

Yes, at this I'd say lets stop the speculation.
If Harrington's bumpers are being stolen then they have a huge hole to plug in their security as my guy has 4 sets ready.
I told Harrington to get the police involved and have them charged with theft....I got back peddling.
I asked them what deal they are offering ...I got more back peddling.

If what they say is true and Harrington plugs the security leak, then PTT can't deliver can they.

Obviously there's bad blood between the two, I also believe there maybe other players pressuring Harrington.

As far as Mikey goes, he already tried to make a deal with Harrington and without going into details (IMHO confidential) he told me it didn't pass his sniff test.

I'm going to take PTT to task on this Monday and see how this unfolds.


The samples will be the tell on quality, I totally plan to use escrow for the main orders.
Worse case if the samples are crap and unusable to recoup my costs something along the lines of a "go fund me" will be deeply appreciated.
If usable, but what I deem unsaleable quality I'll use them and eat it.

They already know if the quality is shit the deal is dead. I have a zero accident 914 (mine) to check fit and a perfect set of painted bumpers to check dimensions, plus decent OE tops and OE as well as 914rubber fog grills. I have the capability to check tolerances to less than 1mm, I totally made notes and spec'ed out the bumpers I sent them.
I had already made the decision to do QC on all sets myself on my car. Plus I will be the one drilling the option holes.

Really this is far beyond the point of being "worth it" for me, if you guys want to bail go for it. If not I'll press on.

[bahnzai]

Mark, for me, I am happy to place my trust in you. If you say it is good to go, I am on board.
I know this has been a huge amount of work for you already and that is greatly appreciated.
There are so many of us that are excited about the opportunity, especially the GT front bumper option.

Thanks again for tackling this!!!

[Olympic 914]

Mark, for me, I am happy to place my trust in you. If you say it is good to go, I am on board.
I know this has been a huge amount of work for you already and that is greatly appreciated.

Thanks again for tackling this!!!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Mark.

If they are good enough for you to put your name on the deal that's good enough for me.

I'm still in.

Tom

[Mitox]

Mark,

I'm still in; thanks for all of your work on this.

Michael

[Tom_T]

Yes, at this I'd say lets stop the speculation.
If Harrington's bumpers are being stolen then they have a huge hole to plug in their security as my guy has 4 sets ready.
I told Harrington to get the police involved and have them charged with theft....I got back peddling.
I asked them what deal they are offering ...I got more back peddling.

If what they say is true and Harrington plugs the security leak, then PTT can't deliver can they.

Obviously there's bad blood between the two, I also believe there maybe other players pressuring Harrington.

As far as Mikey goes, he already tried to make a deal with Harrington and without going into details (IMHO confidential) he told me it didn't pass his sniff test.

I'm going to take PTT to task on this Monday and see how this unfolds.


The samples will be the tell on quality, I totally plan to use escrow for the main orders.
Worse case if the samples are crap and unusable to recoup my costs something along the lines of a "go fund me" will be deeply appreciated.
If usable, but what I deem unsaleable quality I'll use them and eat it.

They already know if the quality is shit the deal is dead. I have a zero accident 914 (mine) to check fit and a perfect set of painted bumpers to check dimensions, plus decent OE tops and OE as well as 914rubber fog grills. I have the capability to check tolerances to less than 1mm, I totally made notes and spec'ed out the bumpers I sent them.
I had already made the decision to do QC on all sets myself on my car. Plus I will be the one drilling the option holes.

Really this is far beyond the point of being "worth it" for me, if you guys want to bail go for it. If not I'll press on.

Mark,

I hope that you'll hold the PTT guy's feet to the fire on whether he's selling you factory seconds from Harrington, & how he's getting them.

I think that there could be a market on here for factory seconds for DD cars & those on a tight budget - but he should've disclosed that to you so you're not caught in the middle on this.

That guy puts you in a very uncomfortable position with whatever he's doing on this venture, & not telling you the whole story.

Also, keep in mind that the legal system is vastly different in Communist countries such as Vietnam & China - not to mention their politics - so the Harrington guy may not be back-peddling, but just recognizing the difficulties of getting enforcement as UK owned or based company, with a factory in Vietnam, & going up against a local.

If these bumpers are in fact found to be stolen from Harrington, then there's also the ethical & moral question of dealing in the stolen goods.

JMHO, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[r_towle]

wow, this sucks for Mark. I hope it works out.

Rich

[Mark Henry]

Well here's something you can't get from Harrington.

Samples will be shipping soon.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[mepstein]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)