Intro from Montana: '73 2.0L rustoration thread Options

[930cabman]

Please do, how many of are not guilty of attempting crazy projects?

We all have something in common ...... nuff said

[KELTY360]

As usual, beaver is the solution, not the problem.

That would make a great opening line to a movie. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[914werke]

@BB: I just went through much of your thread, when did you make the decision to go wit twin carbs and ditch the FI? and great story and build thread btw

There is a strong chance this engine will return to FI (either stock DJet or a more modern system), but for now, I'll just enjoy driving it for awhile and see how the carbs treat me. Personally, I think you made the smart choice deciding to go with the DJet.

Thanks, but I am having second thoughts. We have boxes and boxes of stuff from three different cars and am having a hard time determining what is D jet and what is L jet. It seems as the L jet is preferred due to the air metering. On the fence, it seems awful easy to have Pierce send a 40 IDF kit and go.

Seems that way but it isnt always as easy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
If you have as many bits as that to complete any entire system with tested components dont sweat it, install either one.
They will both work unless you built the motor to specs significantly outside the typical 2056 parameters.
If you search on my UID I posted a comprehensive list somewhere of all the necessary parts for each system if that would help.

[bbrock]

Please do, how many of are not guilty of attempting crazy projects?

We all have something in common ...... nuff said

Roger that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I picked up this morning where I left off yesterday - aggravated (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

After mopping up the oil sprayed all over my freshly clean engine and floor, I pulled the leaking valve cover and confirmed the 914Rubber gasket is a piece of (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) First, the oversized gasket is, indeed, a problem. Pulling the cover revealed that when the cover is clamped down, the extra material has to go somewhere, and in this case, that somewhere was to bow inward.



This problem is compounded by another design fail on these gaskets. They are cut quite a bit more narrow than the cover flanges. I grabbed the old Beck and Arnley gasket that spent 35 years drying out in my parts bin but did NOT leak, and sure enough, it is a good 1mm wider than the 914Rubber version and fits snugly in the flange and is held in place by the alignment tabs. In this pic, the B &A gasket is on the bottom and both gaskets are aligned against the outer lip of the cover.



I also have a set of stock thickness and 914Rubber gaskets and pulled them out to compare. Same issue, cut too narrow. So there is more wasted money, and more importantly, considerable time and mess.

I decided to just reinstall the B&A gasket since it has only been used about 30 minutes and did not leak. Took less than a minute to snap it in place even with the heat exchangers installed. Fired up the engine... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) ... NO LEAKS.

Moving on. I spent about 40 minutes trying to dial in the engine as best I could. I rechecked the timing and had to dial back the total advance a little to bring it to spec. Then I went through the long iterative process of dialing in the idle speed and balancing the carbs.

When I got it dialed in close, I hooked up the vacuum retard and advance and then blipped the throttle to see how it responded. It responded like shit! Horrible! Damn, it dogged way more with the vacuum advance connected than it had before. I unhooked both vacuum lines and plugged the ports and gave it another try. Still shit! WTF? Of course paranoia in these early stages of running a new engine is at its peak, and I started trying to think of what horrible thing I must have down to ruin the engine. About that time I looked over and saw the #1-2 carb linkage laying limp and useless on the engine block. Yeah, I forgot to hook it back up after balancing the carbs and was only revving 2 cylinders. Doh! I hooked it back up and blipped the throttle again. Yeah, that's better. Then I hooked up both vacuum lines and tried again. Okay, that sounds pretty good! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)

Still a bit of a tach issue although the wild bouncing before is gone and must have been from having the car tach and analyzer tach connected at the same time. Anyway, I shot another video to see what folks think. The engine sounds didn't come through as well as would be helpful and there are some Blair Witch style camera swings here but here it is:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX83mpbP0Jk


After the car cools down, I'll get the heater parts back on.

[bbrock]

As usual, beaver is the solution, not the problem.

That would make a great opening line to a movie. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Could be but I'll admit that statement is false on its face. We have to admit that beaver has been the source of great sorrow for many lads and lasses alike. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[KELTY360]

As usual, beaver is the solution, not the problem.

That would make a great opening line to a movie. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Could be but I'll admit that statement is false on its face. We have to admit that beaver has been the source of great sorrow for many lads and lasses alike. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

I was thinking nature documentary. What were you thinking? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Nice work on the engine.

[bbrock]

As usual, beaver is the solution, not the problem.

That would make a great opening line to a movie. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Could be but I'll admit that statement is false on its face. We have to admit that beaver has been the source of great sorrow for many lads and lasses alike. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

I was thinking nature documentary. What were you thinking? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Yes, I was also thinking of nature documentary (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[930cabman]

Hate to get off topic, but how is she running? bouncing tach due to signal from Pertronix?

Also, seems to stumble on accelerating, where is your spark and how are your accel pumps?

but boys will be boys, it's instinctive

[bbrock]

Hate to get off topic, but how is she running? bouncing tach due to signal from Pertronix?

Also, seems to stumble on accelerating, where is your spark and how are your accel pumps?

but boys will be boys, it's instinctive

Ok, first... you started it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

As for the running. I would say inconsistent. I let it cool down and re-installed the heater parts (after I found the other 914Rubber valve cover gasket leaking and replaced it with the old B&A). The I put the car back on the ground and pushed its ass out the garage door to keep the fumes down and fired it up. It coughed and sputtered and was idling really slow even after it warmed up. It acted like it was either misfiring, or running out of gas but the fuel pressure holds a steady 3.5 psi. Then the snow started blowing into the garage (spring in the Rockies), so I shut it down and pushed the car back in before making any progress.

The bouncing tach. Could be the Pertronix misfiring but I've read a lot of reports of Pertronix III not playing nice with older tachs because the are a multi-fire unit which some say doesn't send the clean signal the tach is expecting. It could also be the Pertronix not operating as advertised. For now I'm going to ignore the tach and focus on getting the engine running consistently well. Then if the tach is still bouncing, I may try one of these: http://ashlocktech.com/
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/ashlocktech.com-20845-1619397032.1.png)

If I can't get it consistently running smooth, I might plug the 050 dizzy I have in and eliminate both the Pertronix and the stock dizzy out of the equation. I noticed that stumble on acceleration too. The carbs are in top shape. They have never been used until the first start a couple weeks ago. I went through them and replaced all the seals that might have deteriorated in storage or not been ethanol rated, including the accelerator pump diaphragms. The pumps provide good clean squirts down the throats. They might benefit from a bit of adjustment though. A couple other thoughts on the stumble, which it hadn't been doing until the camera was on - go figure. I think the idle is still set a little too low. It is idling below 500 rpm. The vacuum signal off the carb could be weak so not getting enough advance. Need to do some playing around with that. What I need now is some nice weather so I can take the car outside and spend some quality time with the engine.

[worn]

Beavers are the largest rodent in North America, so give the beaver due respect. More likely that marmots contribute to automotive troubles. They will fill their cheek pouches with anything edible or insulating. Adorable yes, trouble yes as well. The mountain beaver is restricted to the Pacific Northwest, but are darn good gnawers as well. The regular squirrels are going after my house this time, but I know they wanna gnaw a Porsche. Good luck!

[bbrock]

Started out the day with this:



and ended up ordering one of these:



As I said in my last post, the engine was running inconsistent and continued to consistently be inconsistent. It would start find and come up to a nice idle speed as it warmed up, then idle nice and smooth and rev very freely for awhile. After running about 15 minutes or so, it would start misfiring and drifting. Idle would slowly climb as high as 1500 rpm or drop below 500. Not hunting. More like drifting. It would misfire and run rough and the tach needle bounce all over. So many possibilities for problems, I decided to simplify and pull the dizzy and plug the NOS 050 dizzy I bought 35 years ago. I had to also swap out the coil and grabbed an old beat up one out of the parts bin. Trying to set the static timing, I couldn't figure out why I wasn't getting any voltage until I noticed I had forgotten to plug in the condenser to the coil. I quickly plugged in in the the coil, forgetting that I had rotated this coil 180 from the one I just pulled and plugged the condenser right into the positive side. Of course the points wire glowed red hot and burnt in half.

I then scavenged a crappy set of points and a condenser from a spare dizzy, got the static timing set and cranked the engine. Nothin'. Cranked again, still nothin'. I tried incrementally rotating the dizzy to advance the timing a little at a time. No go. I tested the coil and found the primary winding had too high of resistance, so I swapped in the one other coil I had which tested fine. Still nothin' WTF? Checked and double checked the points gap. Nope. Pulled #1 spark plug. Yeah, there is spark. Well shit. I decided to throw the Pertronix in so back in went the Flamethrower coil. Crank, crank, crank, nothin'. Screw that. I went inside for a break to think on it a bit. Then it hit me. I'll bet I set up the dizzy 180 off.

After relaxing for a bit, I went out and checked. Sure as (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) , I set everything up for TDC on the exhaust stroke. What a dumbass dipshit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burro.gif) Well crap, the Pertronix is already in there, so I reset the timing and wiring for TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke. Crank, crank, VROOM! Well there is a morning I'll never get back. Anyway, I dialed in the carbs again and had it idling steady at ~750-800 rpm and the Tach seems as smooth as I ever remember it. Every now and then I see it drop a note on idle, but otherwise smooth. It revs okay but has a small hesitation coming off of idle. Not as bad as the flat spot of a 009, but a much shorter version of that. It would be drivable, but that isn't good enough. I want that quick response I was getting with the vacuum advance.

To be honest, the stock dizzy I tried has a pretty sketchy history. It was rather flaky all the years I drove this car. It left me and the wife stranded for nearly a full day in McKinney, TX once while my brother and I chased down what turned out to be a thrown centrifugal advance spring. That was fun to figure out. I was hoping a good cleaning and lubrication would restore it to serviceable condition, but given that the Pertronix seems to be working just fine in the 050, I guess not. I'm 99% sure the dizzy I ordered is the exact unit sold as the "Pertronix SVDA" but with conventional points. I already have a Pertronix and they have gotten rather spendy recently, so I'll just swap my module into this $60 dizzy.

In other news, my NOS heater flapper bolt finally arrived all the way from Latvia.



Now I know how to finish the other bolt that was donated to the cause by @brant when I replate it and the barrel connectors for the cables.



I also picked up my brand new Mom's Service Cover from Perry Kiel today (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) So happy to have this little beauty.



Finally, a couple long overdue pics of @mb911 's quiet muffler installed. I can't really say how it sounds yet since I've only run the engine with the engine lid and air box removed. The racket from the engine and carbs is way too loud and I am hopeful once everything is buttoned up, the exhaust note from muffler will be mostly what is heard. I do like the look of heat tempered SS though.

Speaking of air box, I should probably do something about that. I wonder if I could just trim the rain tray to make it fit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

[930cabman]

Sounds as though today was a good day. Near victory

[bbrock]

Gettin' low

I only got a half day in the shop today but made good progress. Here's how to do something the right way and not the lame-ass way some of you tried to get me to do... and you know who you are... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

I'm speaking of course, about that air cleaner. The original design nestled the air box bracket down as low as possible and still clear the CSP carb linkage tucked underneath. Of course, that wasn't low enough so there is only ONE solution. Lower the linkage. Here's the partially disassembled center pivot.



And here is the bracket filleted like a fish.



And here it is put back together the way Picasso might have done it.



This drops the pivot mechanism a little over an inch. Everything at this stage is just rough ground and tacked together as there is a lot of trial fitting that needs to be done before moving forward. That triangle void at the bottom will get filled to restore structural integrity. Here it is back in the car to make sure everything works as it should and there are no issues. We have clearance Clarence (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)



That's looking good, now it's time to chop down that cleaner bracket a bit more. I need to weld the feet back on, but this will work for test fitting.



Engine cover back in place and air box clipped in. Notice how nice and unmolested that rain tray looks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)



Now for the big moment. Drum roll please...................... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)



To see how much clearance I have, I plopped a lump of modeling clay on the high point of the air box and shut the lid. The clay compressed down to about 1/2" thickness. That's just about perfect I think. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)



Of course, dropping the air box but not the carbs changed the geometry, so I now have a gap on the outer edges of the carb intakes roughly equivalent to the depth I dropped the box.



But I have a plan. We'll see if it works.

[Dion]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[Cairo94507]

Very nicely done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[930cabman]

The devil is in the details, keep up the good work.

First drive?

[bbrock]

Kind of a big day today. She's (almost) street legal!!!!



I'll describe the process for getting the tags because I think it might get under the skin of some of you Californians from what I've read. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Strolled into the DMV a little after 4pm today with a Kansas Non-Highway title that probably should have been transferred when moved almost 20 years ago. I've learned that a "non-highway" title is a weird little beast that AFAIK, only Kansas has. If you have a functioning and otherwise street legal vehicle that you are not driving, you can opt to title it as non-highway which waives the need to carry insurance or pay annual registration. A no-brainer for a car that was disassembled into boxes and the chassis was half rust, but I was nervous that Montana would interpret it as a salvage title.

The woman who helped me had never seen one before. After asking a few questions, it was clear she understood that this was not a salvage title. She conferred with a co-worker, looked up the Kansas title code, and came back with the appropriate affidavits and other paperwork for a smooth title transfer. Then she took it upon herself to hand select a set of tags that ended in "73." How's that for service? I paid a total of $124 and walked out with a set of permanent tags - meaning I'll never have to pay registration or taxes on this car again as long as I'm a Montana resident. I should have a copy of the new title in 4-6 weeks. Total time spent from walking in the courthouse door? 35 minutes.

Is that the way it works elsewhere? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Cairo94507]

Now that is the way it should in all states. Congratulations on a milestone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mb911]

Kind of a big day today. She's (almost) street legal!!!!



I'll describe the process for getting the tags because I think it might get under the skin of some of you Californians from what I've read. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Strolled into the DMV a little after 4pm today with a Kansas Non-Highway title that probably should have been transferred when moved almost 20 years ago. I've learned that a "non-highway" title is a weird little beast that AFAIK, only Kansas has. If you have a functioning and otherwise street legal vehicle that you are not driving, you can opt to title it as non-highway which waives the need to carry insurance or pay annual registration. A no-brainer for a car that was disassembled into boxes and the chassis was half rust, but I was nervous that Montana would interpret it as a salvage title.

The woman who helped me had never seen one before. After asking a few questions, it was clear she understood that this was not a salvage title. She conferred with a co-worker, looked up the Kansas title code, and came back with the appropriate affidavits and other paperwork for a smooth title transfer. Then she took it upon herself to hand select a set of tags that ended in "73." How's that for service? I paid a total of $124 and walked out with a set of permanent tags - meaning I'll never have to pay registration or taxes on this car again as long as I'm a Montana resident. I should have a copy of the new title in 4-6 weeks. Total time spent from walking in the courthouse door? 35 minutes.

Is that the way it works elsewhere? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Umm well some of it. Here its $220 for life time collector plate and no registration needed ever again but can't drive in January. You can also have non op title which is what I am wrestling with for my 928. Cool that you can do that at the courthouse though.

[bbrock]

Umm well some of it. Here its $220 for life time collector plate and no registration needed ever again but can't drive in January. You can also have non op title which is what I am wrestling with for my 928. Cool that you can do that at the courthouse though.

Oh, I forgot to mention that too. That is a standard MT plate with no driving restrictions. Several years ago they decided to go retro with the standard plate design, so no special plate. Just a permanent tag on a regular plate. For an extra $30, I could have gotten this period correct antique plate for a car not to be used for general transportation:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/dojmt.gov-20845-1620262886.1.jpg)

Wait, what!?