What modern EFI is everybody using, Modern EFI applications on Type-IV engine Options

[ottox914]

SDS. See my sig below for the install thread. It has been on 4 different engines, one turbo'd, and has been perfect. Easy to install and tune, rock solid, no failures. You have to want to do it and have an interest to make it all work. If you expect to open a box, mount a thing, plug in a wire, and live happily ever after, well, none of the systems discussed are for you. I quite enjoyed the puzzle and thought process of where to lay out the harness, how long to make stuff, where to mount this and that and the other thing. The tuning is, to me at least, pretty intuitive. I did mine when MS was just a baby and getting started. I wanted to go with a known system.

I have a friend with MS PnP on a 240hp turbo miata. He is an instructor for automotive technology. Smart guy when it comes to cars. His MS works great. But. Even with the wealth of knowledge of MS and miatas in that community, there were so many tables and settings, it took him a bit to find all the dark places in the software to get all the right boxes checked. It wasn't impossible, just took more time and patience that SDS required to be up and running. Then there was the laptop crash. And then the OS on his laptop was to old and didn't play well with the current MS OS he was trying to download and update to. So new laptop and OS. Then the his existing MS tuning files were in an older format that didn't just transfer to the new MS OS. Conversion headaches.

To my experience, MS is a fine option, just more goofing around to get it all right. The greater options in logging are nice. SDS was right, right out of the box. And with the V5 software and laptop logging options, even better. Nice that the laptop can log and assist you with the tune, but the operation of the system is laptop independent.

[Mark Henry]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
I sold Dave his SDS system.


SDS is hands down the simplest system to get up and running, often the factory program will run straight out of the box good enough to get you going. I've locked in the rough fuel maps in as little as 30 minutes of driving time, no dyno.

But there's many computer guys who don't like the thought of a pendant programmed system. The pendant is definitely different, but once you know how the scroll function works with the rich/lean knob, changing values is very fast.
V5 now addresses most of that with the 8 channel data logging, I believe with this you can now program with both the pendant and the laptop.

Many also believe you have to have sequential, in aircooleds running 3000rpm, the speed for proper cooling, the fuel economy of sequential goes out the window.

SDS is not for everyone, but it is a pro built, proven (23 years), good bang for the buck.

SDS has three versions
EM5 (EM 3-and 4) Fuel only
EM5-MSD (EM 3-and 4-MSD) Fuel with crankfire for MSD dizzy based systems
EM5-F (EM 3-and 4-F) Fuel and crankfire. GM based coils, one for 2 cylinders

BTW owners of older V3 and V4 SDS systems can upgrade to V5 for $580. SDS takes your old system ECU, gut it and install a V5 board and drill the case to install the laptop connector.

I have several running systems that I sold and/or installed
A 930 600hp monster EM4-F twin plug
A 930 hot street (guessing 350-400hp) EM5-F twin plug (now MS see note below)
A few vw vans EM4 mostly fuel only, stock dizzy
2 914 EM4 one fuel only one -F crankfire.
my SDS EM4-F system, in my 2.6L type 4 powered bug
and several systems sold, owner installed.

I have one customer who went from a SDS to a MS just this year, in hindsight he said he should have just stuck with the SDS as he's seen no performance improvement. But he does say the MS has more bells and whistles and he wanted to run COP, play with his computer, etc..
If anyone wants a lightly used SDS EM5-F /6 twin plug system PM me and I'll see if it's still for sale. It has the latest V4 chip.

[Mark Henry]

A member asked me if he should ditch his homebuilt MS below was my thoughts.

You'll never beat the price of an MS (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

ITB's I could never get SDS to run right on MAP (due to weak MAP signal) and had to use it as a TPS only system. That said it runs pretty well flawless on TPS only, even in the city.

No problem with MAP signal on a single TB/plenum system, in fact even with a mild carb cam it ran as flawless as a good L-jet.

I believe MS does a better job with weak MAP vac signals of hot cams with ITB's.

I consider SDS is the perfect starter system for a first timer. Only hard part is the trigger mount. For a fuel only system no problem installing it in one day on an existing FI intake.

Personally I'd finish the MS because you have it, if it's a II or III.

As much as I like SDS if I do change to FI on my carbed /6 likely I'll do an MS this time around. We'll see... I've always had no problems with carbs and I love the sound of /6 webers at full song.

[90quattrocoupe]

Now before I start this post, I am not in anyway an aftermarket EFI guru. I probably know just enough to get me into trouble. I come from an era of 55 chevys and air cooled VWs. When I have a EFI problem, I go to a guru.

That being said, another alternative for EFI you may want to look at is VEMS. A lot of the Audi guys are using this, and they are making some insane horsepower from 5 cyclinder motors.

My EFI guru is a guy named Mark Swanson at EFI Express. He replaced my 034 EFI with VEMS, basically because 034 is no longer supporting their product. VEMS is. Mark is a tuning and wiring guru. He makes his own harnesses.

While I was back there he was converting a 914 1.7 from CB to Megasquirt. One of problems he was having was timing. Now this customer did not want to spend a lot of money, pulling the motor and such to install a crank trigger was not in the budget. To get by this Mark was using the distributor, with a digital sensor. I don't know the brand. He was having trouble with the mechanical advance on the timing. Since the MQ does the timing for you, he eliminated the advance springs and welded the 2 plates together.

So if any one contemplating doing a conversion to MQ or more advanced EFI such as VEMS, and live in the Northeast, you may want to see this man.

One of the other cars he was working on while I was there, was a Ferrari Testarossa. He was installing twin hamster cages and VEMS.

Just for the hell of it, this is the dyno run on my other car, at his shop.

Greg W.

Coupe dyno run

[Mark Henry]

That's one of the issues with many PEFI systems, there's almost no way to dial them in without expensive dyno time. Most of this is because the programs are so complex you have to be a pro with a dyno to dial them in.
That's the main reason I try to steer a novice and/or lower budget guy towards SDS, no dyno needed and 98% of the time you can get a good fuel map without a pro.
Once you have that under your belt you can look at a more sophisticated system.

These's are not a bolt on solution and they're not cheap, including MS.

Also I can say with absolute certainty there's way more PEFI systems sitting on the guy's benches then successfully installed in cars.

[TheWeatherMan]

Thanks, ill continue to research the SDS set up and what all I need.

I still have the original manifold/throttle body. I'll start from there. I think I would want to upgrade everything else.

I have already upgraded all fuel lines to stainless steel but I know ill have to install a high pressure fuel pump since im currently running Weber 44's with a matched "carb cam"

[Mark Henry]

Thanks, ill continue to research the SDS set up and what all I need.

I still have the original manifold/throttle body. I'll start from there. I think I would want to upgrade everything else.

I have already upgraded all fuel lines to stainless steel but I know ill have to install a high pressure fuel pump since im currently running Weber 44's with a matched "carb cam"

Stock intake is the fastest way to get you up and running, then you can go from there. My first couple of set-ups were a stock 2.0 intake. Also you can use the stock 914 FI pump and regulator.

Stock 2.0 D-jet injectors work good, but you need to add a resistor pack because they are low impedance, (IIRC free on sds) you can remove this if you later decide to go with high impedance injectors.
1.8 l-jet and 1.7 injectors are not a good choice for PEFI.