Experienced Competetion Drivers..., What did this guy do wrong? Options

[whitetwinturbo]

If you play in slo-mo:

1] at 2 second mark you can see the driver's side of suspension is really loaded and passenger side is way to high.....as if there's no sway bars? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

2] Easy to see cage is NOT tied to rear tub/suspension (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)

3] Easy to see big counter steering effort [which means he probably "lifted" off the throttle] (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[EdwardBlume]

If you play in slo-mo:

1] at 2 second mark you can see the driver's side of suspension is really loaded and passenger side is way to high.....as if there's no sway bars? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

2] Easy to see cage is NOT tied to rear tub/suspension (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)

3] Easy to see big counter steering effort [which means he probably "lifted" off the throttle] (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

He's practically on the shoulder coming in. I still think if he doesn't flinch, he makes it. Still a lot of meat of the road.

As far as the crapiness of the cage, I appreciate the expert advice and completely agree with a 2017 brain trust. Likely the cage was pre-2000 by a hobbist, so results may vary. I've seen way crappier. The guy is lucky how it all played out.

[porschetub]

The photog is a convenient scapegoat but in reality he screwed himself regardless. That car should NOT have been allowed to race with that shit-box cage. Luckily for him, he crashed very early in the run...

PS: I did not see the link but I believe it is the fool who kicked the teener. If so, he is an idiot driving above his limits as Rob stated. BTW: He lifted and paid the price...

T

I don't see how it's evident that the cage was significantly inferior. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

You didn't say if you raced or had racecar experience or building them,.....answer soon.

[MikeInMunich]

Wow. Thanks for the reply and lesson. Nice job.

[MikeInMunich]

I haven't raced yet, so no experience, nor with cages at all.

[MikeInMunich]

I agree with all those that said he had already lost control before getting to the guy with the camera and was 11/10's.

He just didn't get the opposite steering going quick enough.
He had plenty of room to the outside of the turn as he only drifted/skidded to the middle lane markers.

If you've ever seen that Fascination video of the yellow Ruf on the Nurburgring, you'll see that in the right hands this type of slide is easily controlled/corrected for.
All it takes is experience.

A lot of the Pikes Peak hillclimb drivers are not so high on experience.

This is one of the answers I was looking for. Thanks. I will look for that video mentioned. Now I have another question. I can't find this expression anywhere...11/10s and I don't get it. I did however, while looking for it, find this, which has a number of interesting and funny quotes about racing.

http://justacarguy.blogspot.de/2010/08/bes...-about-car.html

[MikeInMunich]

Same boulders...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXzWPDfGrYU

Holy crap! Major oversteer!

[falcor75]

I agree with all those that said he had already lost control before getting to the guy with the camera and was 11/10's.

He just didn't get the opposite steering going quick enough.
He had plenty of room to the outside of the turn as he only drifted/skidded to the middle lane markers.

If you've ever seen that Fascination video of the yellow Ruf on the Nurburgring, you'll see that in the right hands this type of slide is easily controlled/corrected for.
All it takes is experience.

A lot of the Pikes Peak hillclimb drivers are not so high on experience.

This is one of the answers I was looking for. Thanks. I will look for that video mentioned. Now I have another question. I can't find this expression anywhere...11/10s and I don't get it. I did however, while looking for it, find this, which has a number of interesting and funny quotes about racing.

http://justacarguy.blogspot.de/2010/08/bes...-about-car.html

10/10s you are driving flat out with zero margin for errors.
11/10s either you need to be very skilled and experienced or damn lucky

[horizontally-opposed]

Same boulders...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXzWPDfGrYU

Maybe it's the hour. Or my brain's way of dealing with the insane danger here. Or maybe its the body language of the spectators silhouetted by the flames. But I am not sure a crash video has ever made me laugh harder.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Can people run any faster? Pretty sure Carl Lewis would've been left behind. Those silhouettes hauled a** outta there. Pretty impressive, actually. And of course I am glad no one appeared to get hurt. Pikes Peak is super cool. Also, insanely dangerous.

[horizontally-opposed]

To the OP's question: I think it's too hard to tell, whether the car was already in trouble or the idiotic "photographer" caused a bobble of steering or a lift, without seeing some in-car footage or at least some foot from another angle.

Looking at those boulders, not sure whether going off the side is worse. Suppose it depends where that happens...

Not so bad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6s1nmJDe4Y

Bad. Very bad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIFjGF5FLmo

On the other hand...still mesmerizing. For anyone who has driven a GT3 Cup or RSR, or just watched the ALMS races, hearing that gearbox on dirt...aww man it's good. The whole world changes at 2:15.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSP-_XFnkV8

[MikeInMunich]

Ouch! Thanks.

[Calwaterbear]

It's pretty hard/ expensive to get significant seat time in a car, for pikes peak, you get what, a 1/2 hour a year? so you better be actively seaking other venues/ race series etc that you can build up some time.

you essentially buy your way into Pikes Peak, i know you have to do a rookie school where you have a few short practices, and get a chalk talk, but thats a pretty technical challenge if you don't have a couple of hundred hours of racing seat time on road courses.

I don't know the driver at all, but I can tell you a good carpenter never blames his tools.

He obviously did enough to get the car through Pikes Peak safety inspection, but I have no idea how rigorous that is.

If your reading between the lines, my completely uninformed opinion, guy was in it way over his head, and I question if he had the experience he needed to actually be up to the task.

I've seen a whole lot of guys with more money than skill in several different race series, and a whole lot of em tend to crash out because they didnt realize money didn't buy them skill or knowledge!

[carr914]

Fractional error. He was at 11/10's and had only 10/10's talent. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I would give him a 7.5 out of 10! I might have given him a 8 but he kicked the car like it was at fault!

[xperu]

Keep your eye on the guy in blue checkered shirt (w/camera) on the corner. When the 914 comes into sight the shirt is right on the edge of track, which is the very line the driver has for his corner. Shirt does not flinch or move back as he is focused on his lens. Driver has to make an unintended reflex move to avoid clipping the shirt, which sets him up for the subsequent lose of control. Maybe... or maybe not ! Looks likely though... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I have seen this video before and deleive the driver was caught off gard by the spectator. He may also have been on the verg of loosing control. Combined ....... Crash. Mike Kelly

[jmitro]

the cage in that photo may look questionable, but not every deficiency pointed out may be legal. For instance, attaching the cage to the Apillar is not legal in some classes for sanctioned racing. In some sanctioning organizations, stock classes allow only a 6pt cage....main hoop, front down tube, and rear supports.

In fact, PCA allows bolt-in cages for their stock classes; kinda surprising to me, but I guess they are considered safe enough for racing.

As for the cause of the crash, it looks like he was off line and in trouble before ever entering the corner. Just my limited viewpoint

[carr914]

Keep your eye on the guy in blue checkered shirt (w/camera) on the corner. When the 914 comes into sight the shirt is right on the edge of track, which is the very line the driver has for his corner. Shirt does not flinch or move back as he is focused on his lens. Driver has to make an unintended reflex move to avoid clipping the shirt, which sets him up for the subsequent lose of control. Maybe... or maybe not ! Looks likely though... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

He already made a correction before the blue shirt as his line was wrong - he was heading to drop a wheel off where the blue shirt guy is.

Distractions, you want distractions?




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INwqyPct8qY

[Cracker]

Not that we are seeing this differently but that is not my point. I would be utterly baffled if "Pikes Peak" wouldn't allow for a more substantial cage. I could care less if a "historic" racing class doesn't allow for it...this car was running an event with potentially crazy drops and boulders. You build a car to the event - not settle for what loose rules allow. It all equates to poor judgement - from both sides of the event. Just my opinion...

T

the cage in that photo may look questionable, but not every deficiency pointed out may be legal. For instance, attaching the cage to the Apillar is not legal in some classes for sanctioned racing.

[jmitro]

yea for sure, definitely want the cage as safe as possible within the limits of what is allowed by the rules organization; the way the passenger side A pillar is buckled is pretty scary. I have no idea what the rules are for the hillclimb, and I bet that car is NOT in a stock class.
I wonder if a 6 point bolt in cage would do the same?

I raced BMWCCA; in stock class the cage is pretty limited; in mod class it can be tied to the chassis and every suspension pickup point if desired.

[jmitro]

watching the video closely, one can see the rear end is loose before he even gets to the spectators

[Cracker]

Maybe Brant could help clarify but I have never seen a 914 in a "stock" class with a 3 foot high wing mounted beyond the rear bumper. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

T

...and I bet that car is NOT in a stock class.