Tony's Subaru Conversion Thread Options

[TonyAKAVW]

My first choice would be a US domestic market sinle turbo 2.5 liter STI engine because it puts out more power than the 2.0 single turbo and has much easier exhaust plumbing than the dual turbo. I didn't know Subaru made an STI twin turbo engine actually... I know that there is a Jpanese domestic market twin turbo (like the one fiid was trying to use) but I don't think its an "STi" engine.

The 2.5L STi engines are very expensive. From what I see/hear they go for between $5k and $8k !

For any of the turbo engines you will almost certainly need to mount the radiator up front.

-Tony

[Kostamojen]

There really isnt such a thing as a WRX STI "twin turbo". The only cars that came with the twin turbos were foreign market turbo Legacies, and none of the current models use a twin turbo because of the developments in Twin Scroll Turbo technology. The JDM STI's use twins scroll turbos, as do the Legacies now. Its a much more efficient design that saves space and weight yet allows for alot of low-end torque because the twin scroll turbos spool at like 1500-2000rpms. Thats actually a good option if you want torque, even for a USDM WRX motor (IE the 2.0). There are a few folks who have run the twin scroll setup on WRX motors with great success (You can find the turbo, twin scroll piping, and oil pan all together for $1500, and use that with a WRX longblock which can be had for $1000 and you have a 300hp motor right there that spools very quickly). Although, im not sure how much torque you want in a 914 as I would think alot of low end turbo spooling would require rather large tires and a better tranny.

The other option is using a 2.5 USDM STI short block with whatever heads you want (WRX heads, JDM heads, etc.) which only costs about $1500 brand spankin new. Thats good for 30-40hp over a stock WRX motor right there, without spending the large amount of money for a full STI motor with all the goodies.

Theres another issue too with the new motors, especially the STI motor, and thats the electronic throttle. It pretty much requires you to use the proper ECU with that motor, and can make the pedal setup rather difficult. Ive also seen alot of issues with 05-06 motors now because of the Immobilizer built into the ECU's which will seems to be hard to get subaru support for, especially if you swaping it into another kind of car...

The twin turbo motors dont seem like a good idea to me for anything anymore, especially since there is ZERO support for this motor setup in North America.

I think if you arent going to do much with the tranny, a WRX motor with your choice of upgraded turbo would be ideal. Not too much torque and you can get it up to 200-300 wheel horse power if you want without too much trouble. A td05-16g or even the STI's VF39 are cheap options that I'd go with.

[mrdezyne]

Just read this thread from begining to end....... I'm sold. Start looking for a donor EJ25 this week......

Great work on the details, write ups and valuable info! Please, by all means, keep it up. I'm soaking this stuff up like a sponge!

Being a mechanical engineer myself, all of your "over engineering" seems perfectly logical to me. True, you could just rush the job and wrap it all up with electrical tape but why not take the time to make it easy to work on later? Big Kudos! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

And all of this with the cooling in the engine bay? Are you kidding me? Why not do the swap? This thing was made with the 914 in mind......

[TonyAKAVW]

Time for an update.

I'm 95% done with my alternator bracket. I need to get a small amount of aluminum welding done, and hacksaw off an extra piece of metal and its done.

Conceptually my alternator bracket is similar to that of others who are doing/have done a Subaru conversion. Basically take the alternator and flip it over, out of the way of the intake, and build the 'adjustment' half of the bracket to hold the loose end.

The bracket was made in my father-in-law's machine shop in the outskirts of Buenos Aires. Thats right, I couldn't go for two weeks without doing some 914 related work. Lucky for me, my father-in-law is really excited about the projecct too. Last time he came up to visit he did some body work for me (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

Machining was done with a mix of tools, including my favorite, the vertical EDM, which we used to make precise internal right angle cuts, and the horizontal adjustment channel.

The original bracket which I took with me caused some problems at the Argentine customs. Upon X-raying my baggage the attendant asked me to pull out the offending metal piece. He held it for a moment, looked it over, asked what it was, still acted concerned, looked it over some more, and eventually gave it back to me. So if you ever want to take stuff in to Argentina, just pack a random piece of oddly shaped metal and it will distract them. Or maybe I just got lucky (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif)

Anyway, on with the pictures..

[TonyAKAVW]

(referring to the above picture...)
My timing belt cover parts are in the mail... I'm replacing the belt, water pump and cover pieces before putting the engine in the car...


finally...

[scotty914]

toni does your engine have a iac valve and where are you putting it if it does ?


mount looks nice you should make a few

[TonyAKAVW]

Yes, my motor does have an Idle Air Solenoid. Not sure where I'm going to put it, but I pretty much decided to do away with the stock tubing and hoses for air and fuel, and just start over with my own. So I'll find some place to mount it...

-Tony

I'll see if my father in law wants to do a small run of these.

[eric914]

I would be interested in one. Looks very stock.

Eric

[mongrel-gs]

Wow! Thats much prettier than my version. If you ever end up making some extras you want to be rid of, let me know! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[andys]

I briefly looked over Rennegade's Subie swap on display at the GAF in Ventura this past weekend. Motor fits very nicely, with nearly a foot of space between the firewall and the front of the motor. They made a sub frame that looked like it bolted to the motor mount crossbar mounting points, and the transmission mounting points. I'm not familiar with Subie motors, but his one had an intercooler so I assume turbo.

I avoided talking with Scott about it, as he's always trying to oversell everything....it's very annoying, though he's a nice guy. Anyone have any idea as to the cost of his Subie kit?

Andys

[TonyAKAVW]

$2k gets you:
engine mount
rubber istolators
mount plates
mount blocks
billet adapter plate
custom flywheel
pilot bearing
throwout bearing
Kevlar clutch disc
pressure plate
hardware

Add another $1000 for the front radiator setup.

[firstknight13]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) tony such a wealth of info thats what renegade wants so how much did you pay and what are the alternatives?? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) also i would take a bracket too!!!

[TonyAKAVW]

Well, so far I'm into this for about $75 including the car, the engine, adapter, 5 lug setup, SC front end, etc. This is due to my repeatedly getting very very lucky...

But to break down the major costs so far...

Engine - $900 but needed maybe $200 in parts
Transmission adapter/flywheel - $250 used, off of Craigslist

I still have about $1000 in parts to buy before I get the car on the road, but this is more than just a conversion, I am taking a car from a rolling chassis to a fully running car.

I'm saving a lot of money by making my own engine bar and keeping the radiator in the engine bay, etc.


Regarding the brackets... I am going to draw up some plans based on my bracket, with some minor improvements and have my father-in-law figure out how to make them and get them shipped up here. I'll try and have some info soon on these.

-Tony

[TonyAKAVW]

Update:

Still working on getting the timing belt installed. I made a stupid mistake of cutting off the old timing belt before aligning the timing marks. Because of this I have some uncertainty of where the timing is. So after consulting with Bondo, I decided to pull the oil pan off, rotate the crank to MDC, and then rotate the cams to their appropriate positions and then the crank to its position. The engine is an interference type, so I can't just freewheel everything into place without being careful.

Hopefully by end of tonight I'll have the timing belt on and install the cover, the crankshaft pulley, etc. I think now is probably as good a time as any to modify the oil pan and oil pickup tube.

Here's a photo of the motor's guts.

[TonyAKAVW]

The timing belt is installed and the oil pan mating surface is cleaned up.

Left to do on the engine:

torque the crankshaft pulley
install the water crossover pipe
install the thermostat and water pump right angle pipe
bolt down the intake manifold
install fuel injectors and rails
do all the hoses on the engine and install misc. valves, filters, etc.
bolt down the throttle body
install oil filler neck
modify and install new oil pan and pickup tube
re-arrange the wiring to fit properly.

-Tony

[Aaron Cox]

bad ass alt bracket tony!!!

sooo over engineered!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

[scottb]

MORE MORE MORE!!!!

great pics and info tony.......

[TonyAKAVW]

After working on the engine I am taking some time now to work on some other parts of the car which need attention. First up is the braking system which is essentially non existent.

I will be using A calipers on the front which came on the SC front suspension that I have. For the rears, I will be using stock 914 rear calipers but spaced to fit 911 vented rotors.

First things first though. Tonight I worked on the pedal cluster. I really need to send a couple parts to a sand blasting place. These will get powder coacted and re-assembled with new bushings. Because the brake light switch failed I am going to engineer a repalcement for it that whould be substantially cheaper than the repalcement 914 switch.

-Tony

[TonyAKAVW]

The last remaining arear on the interior of the car to be POR-15'd is the pedal cluster area, and tonight it got stripped down and got the usual pre-treatment. Might be able to get it painted tomorrow night.


-Tony

[TonyAKAVW]

Got some stuff done today...

First, I met my favorite stripper. She's great. She takes EVERYTHING off.

Her name is Aircraft and she comes in a can. I used it to strip the paint off the subaru oil pan which I'm going to modify this week. Also used it to finish cleaning up the pedal cluster parts which then got a blast of phosphocrap and then POR15. I decided not to powdercoat because POR-15 is impervious to brake fluid unlike powder! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif)

I did do some powder coating however and made a really quick and dirty oven. I took a piece of sheetmetal (rusty of course) and bent it into a U-shape and clamped it to my hand dolly, and set the propane heater in front of it. I then suspended the parts with teflon wire, (which is great for the powder coating and heat resistant for curing) and after coating baked them. I suspended an oven thermometer in the back, to ensure that I was getting to 400 degrees even at the back. Seemed to work quite well.

-Tony