 WTF?? Paypal Fraud |
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| Dave Cawdrey |
 Jul 8 2003, 09:30 PM
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#1
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Dumbo going poop, Daddy :)  Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: 22-January 03 From: Seattle, WA USA Member No.: 182  |
I just got a email from Paypal stating that a buyer from my auction used someone else's credit card. How the fuck can someone do this? Why am I responsible?
Anyway, dude's name is Thomas Richardson. Beware. Here is his info. Someone should call him (IMG:style_emoticons/default/boid.gif) Contact Information for tc_richardson: User ID: tc_richardson Name: Thomas Richardson Company: City: Vallejo State: CA Country: United States Phone: (707) 643 - 0938 |
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| Lawrence |
Jul 8 2003, 09:38 PM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 1,661 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 244 Region Association: None  |
Call him... ask WTF?
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| Joe Bob |
Jul 8 2003, 09:44 PM
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#3
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Retired admin, banned a few times Group: Members Posts: 17,427 Joined: 24-December 02 From: Boulder CO Member No.: 5 Region Association: None |
Shouldn't the credit card company be the one to contact you?
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| Malmz |
Jul 8 2003, 09:46 PM
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#4
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CSOBOSC founding member Group: Benefactors Posts: 489 Joined: 22-April 03 From: So. Cal Member No.: 602 |
Not if the guy with the Paypal account complained to Paypal, then the hold it pending an inquiry. FWIW, Paypal inquiries suck if you're the seller...
Warning though, make sure you this isn't just some sort of misunderstanding before you post somebody's info before you try to resolve it with them (if that is the case...). If there is no resolution, THEN flame the crap out of them! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif) |
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| Malmz |
Jul 8 2003, 09:49 PM
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#5
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CSOBOSC founding member Group: Benefactors Posts: 489 Joined: 22-April 03 From: So. Cal Member No.: 602 |
Then again, now that I just looked up the user id....... no longer registered, 6 positive and 2 negative feedbacks... pretty crappy record... Load the gun........... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
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| Lawrence |
Jul 8 2003, 09:50 PM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 1,661 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 244 Region Association: None |
THIS is the reason not to have a "Verified" account... linked to your checking/savings.
If you were, they'd yank the money out with a wire transfer, and there's nothing you could do about it. There's a reason why they push so hard for that!!! |
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| rick 918-S |
Jul 8 2003, 10:19 PM
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#7
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Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,812 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region 
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So what's the story? What were you selling? Did you send the guy the stuff? Maybe the guy just borrowed a friends card because he didn't have one of his own.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Hope you didn't ship the goods yet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/alien.gif)
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| Brad Roberts |
Jul 8 2003, 10:27 PM
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#8
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
Dave I need some more info on this.
We have about 5500$ sitting in my PayPal account right now that belongs to you.. Every transaction has been flawless. I dont understand what is wrong... so what ?? he used a buddy's card.. did you get paid ?? Anybody that uses any credit card can dispute charges.. My PayPal is verified and I pay so people can use credit cards with me (business account) B |
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| Dave Cawdrey |
Jul 8 2003, 10:41 PM
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#9
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Dumbo going poop, Daddy :) Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: 22-January 03 From: Seattle, WA USA Member No.: 182 |
Here the low down:
Used fog lenses sold for 52 + 4 fer shpping $56 total. He paid thru paypal. A week later, I shipped. Today, Paypal deducts my account, says "fraud use of card". Wants proof of tracking/shipping. N/A w/ USPS (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) |
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| anthony |
Jul 8 2003, 10:42 PM
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#10
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2270 club Group: Benefactors Posts: 3,107 Joined: 1-February 03 From: SF Bay Area, CA Member No.: 218 |
When you sell on ebay only accept Paypal from users with a "confirmed" address and then only ship to that confirmed address. Also, don't take paypal for users outside of the US.
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| Malmz |
Jul 8 2003, 10:48 PM
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#11
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CSOBOSC founding member Group: Benefactors Posts: 489 Joined: 22-April 03 From: So. Cal Member No.: 602 |
You need to send everything with USPS with a tracking number in order to be protected by Paypal as a seller (I know, you probably already know that now...). You need to pay the extra for a tracking number from USPS, but that would have gotten you out of trouble with Paypal.
Unfortunately, you have an uphill battle now. I think (from my recollection) you are hosed from Paypals point of view w/o the tracking number, so you are going to have to go after the guy directly. Good news is his name/address seem legitimate since they come up correctly on a reverse phone number search. Looks like he's 46 years old too (or his dad is if it is a same name situation... just another tidbit a reverse search turned up. Still might be a misunderstanding. Have you tried calling the phone number yet? sm |
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| EdwardBlume |
Jul 8 2003, 10:49 PM
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#12
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 12,338 Joined: 2-January 03 From: SLO Member No.: 81 Region Association: Central California
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Not good news....
A credit card is unsecured credit given to an individual or business. By accepting a credit card payment, YOU as the seller are liable for that payment and can be subject to having to refund the cash for up to 180 days in the case of fraud. According to the credit card company, you are the victim of the fraud, not their customer. Alternatively, as a consumer, you have up to 180 days to claim you did not buy an item charged to your account, and get your money back if its fraud. You're only recourse in this case is to track down the deadbeat buyer and file charges. If its any consolation, interstate fraud is a serious charge. I have not been through this, but I'd be pissed at Paypal for making it seem like the buyer was an OK buyer. You do have an address that you shipped to. To protect yourself, do not take credit cards as payment unless you have a signature (signed in person) and get ID. Its hard for a buyer to say they didn't get something when you show 1) you had the card present, 2) they signed, and 3) you took their ID. Then the credit card merchant company should go after the buyer and have them settle the dispute themselves. In this case, you are the victim.... We should have a DO NOT DO BUS With wall of all the deadbeat folks. |
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| Dave Cawdrey |
Jul 8 2003, 10:54 PM
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#13
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Dumbo going poop, Daddy :) Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: 22-January 03 From: Seattle, WA USA Member No.: 182 |
look
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| Malmz |
Jul 8 2003, 10:57 PM
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#14
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CSOBOSC founding member Group: Benefactors Posts: 489 Joined: 22-April 03 From: So. Cal Member No.: 602 |
FWIW, I learned about the tracking numbers the hard way too. Luckily, mine auction was for something cheap. You do have the benefit though of the buyer's information appearing somewhat accurate so you can try to get him directly.
For the benefit of the discussion, here is Paypal's official policy: What is the Seller Protection Policy? Sellers will not be held liable for chargebacks due to fraud (including payments made with stolen credit cards and false claims of non-shipment) when they follow the rules of our Seller Protection Policy: The seller has a Verified U.S. or Canadian Business or Premier Account The seller ships to the buyer's Confirmed Address. The seller ships within 7 days of receiving payment. The seller can provide reasonable proof-of-shipment which can be tracked online. This document must show that you shipped to the buyer's Confirmed Address. For items valued at $250 or more, you must include a signature from the recipient as proof of receipt. The seller ships tangible goods. Since comparable widely-accepted proof-of-shipment methods are not currently available for intangible goods and services, we are currently unable to offer Seller Protection for digital goods and other electronically-delivered items. The seller accepted a single payment from one PayPal account for a purchase. The seller shipped to a domestic (U.S.) buyer at a U.S. address. When a complaint occurs, sellers need to provide complete information within 7 days of a request from PayPal. However, if PayPal is required by the credit card association to respond immediately to resolve a chargeback, sellers must provide the information within 3 days. PayPal will indicate the response time required in the email message sent to the seller. |
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| Brad Roberts |
Jul 8 2003, 11:00 PM
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#15
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 19,148 Joined: 23-December 02 Member No.: 8 Region Association: None |
I ship everything online thru UPS...so I have every tracking since day one and signatures.
It appears I'm missing out on the "Confirmed Address" crap... looks like I'll have to "confirm" all the f-ing people I deal with.. B |
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| Dave Cawdrey |
Jul 8 2003, 11:02 PM
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#16
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Dumbo going poop, Daddy :) Group: Members Posts: 818 Joined: 22-January 03 From: Seattle, WA USA Member No.: 182 |
DAMN, I'm out $56 DAMN (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)
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| Malmz |
Jul 8 2003, 11:05 PM
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#17
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CSOBOSC founding member Group: Benefactors Posts: 489 Joined: 22-April 03 From: So. Cal Member No.: 602 |
Brad,
Not a bad idea to sweep the account one in a while too. I get antsy if I have more then fifteen hundred bucks in there... Checks usually only take about a week to get if you want to keep it off you bank account records (just cash it at your bank and take the cash...) I use UPS too exclusively. USPS is a PITA to file claims with and you have to pay the extra and get a receipt from the post office. All UPS shipments are automatically insured for $100 and they are fast to settle claims. sm |
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| Malmz |
Jul 8 2003, 11:06 PM
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#18
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CSOBOSC founding member Group: Benefactors Posts: 489 Joined: 22-April 03 From: So. Cal Member No.: 602 |
Is the phone number bogus or out of service, or no luck that way?
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| Joe Bob |
Jul 8 2003, 11:08 PM
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#19
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Retired admin, banned a few times Group: Members Posts: 17,427 Joined: 24-December 02 From: Boulder CO Member No.: 5 Region Association: None |
BTW....if you go to www.paypalsucks.com there is the secret phone number for customer service......
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| Malmz |
Jul 8 2003, 11:09 PM
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#20
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CSOBOSC founding member Group: Benefactors Posts: 489 Joined: 22-April 03 From: So. Cal Member No.: 602 |
BTW, I hate to be the one that tells you.............................. it may be $66. Here is the second part of the Paypal policy (not uncommon for banks):
" What is the Chargeback Settlement Fee? To cover the cost of processing chargebacks, PayPal assesses a $10 fee to sellers who are determined to be at fault for credit card payment chargebacks. The $10 fee will be waived in those cases where the sellers have fulfilled all of the requirements of PayPal's Seller Protection Policy. The $10 fee will also be waived for all sellers participating in our PayPal Preferred program." So if you collect from the buyer, don't forget to add it. sm |
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