Steering shaft boot/bushing and/or adjustment question, ...need some advice/direction Options

[naro914]

For a long time, steering in Huey has been difficult - VERY hard to turn like something was always fighting you. I knew the boot that covers the shaft under the gas tank was never installed so I thought maybe the problem was that the tank was sitting on the shaft or bushings or something.

So today I took out the gas tank and sat looking at it. First....I have no clue how to put the boot on (do I have to drop the rack for that?) but I think the real problem is different. I undid the two allen bolts that hold the U bracket on and slid the rubber bushings out of the was to asses things. Immediately the shaft moved right up against the sides of the hole where it comes through the firewall and relieved the pressure it was under. (see picture) In other words, the shaft was NOT centered at all in that hole, so with the bushings trying to center the shaft, they were putting an immense amount of pressure on the shaft, thus making it hard to turn. (at least this is my theory). In fact, sometimes you can hear a squeaking/creaking type sound when turning the wheel, like metal moving tightly on rubber...

I thought "ok, adjust the U-joints to allow the shaft to be centered". no dice since you can't lengthen/shorten the shaft in the U Joints because of the notch they have where the tightening bolt goes through.

So....questions for the 914world brain trust:

1) how can I adjust things to get that shaft centered through the firewall hole?
2) how do I get the boot on?
3) where can I get new versions of all those bushings? there seems to be two (1 & 2 in my picture) and I guess a bearing (3)?

thoughts?
TIA

[iankarr]

2 and 3 are actually one piece...steering shaft bearing. Looks like the rubber outer part has separated from the bearing part. 914rubber has a high quality replacement. And they have a great refurbished/swap deal for the rack, too.

#1 can be reused. It's more of a weather insulator than anything. As for the difficulty steering, my guess is that the separted bushing or the rack itself is the problem. The "hockey puck" above the rack has a fair amount of give, so things would have to be pretty far off for the shaft to bind as much as you describe...though I guess it is possible. The rack ties in to the auxilliary support behind the belly pan. And, yes...nothing can be removed or replaced without dropping the rack. The boot goes on before the bearing and rubber collar before short column is inserted through the bulkhead.

Separating (and re-inserting) the u-joint where the short column passes through the bulkhead is the hardest part of the job. Best to have a helper pull the rack down while you hold the U-joint tabs apart with a prybar or large screwdriver.

Here's a video I made which includes most of the process. Hope it helps!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnuYLbZ89y8

[naro914]

2 and 3 are actually one piece...steering shaft bearing. Looks like the rubber outer part has separated from the bearing part. 914rubber has a high quality replacement. #1 can be reused. It seems to be more of a weather insulator than anything. As for the centering, my guess is that the separted bushing is the problem. The "hockey puck" above the rack has a fair amount of give, so things would have to be pretty far off for the shaft to bind as much as you describe...thought it is possible. The rack ties in to the auxilliary support behind the belly pan. .And, yes...none can be removed or replaced without dropping the rack.

I hear ya about the give on the 'puck' part, but with the rod under the dash, to the U joint, the rod through the firewall is forced hard against the hole edge. so hard that upon inspection, the #1 bushing is wallowed out pretty bad. The small part of the bushing that goes through the firewall hole is non-existent anymore. so I'm thinking it's really putting stress/strain and almost bending the rod from the U-Joint to the puck.

[iankarr]

Hmm. Check the bolts holding the steering rack to the aux support. The way the aux support ties in to the A-arms, body and steering rack forces things to be aligned pretty well. Has the car ever had front end damage?

(note: I made some edits to my post above).

[jcd914]

cuddy_k's question about front end damage is valid.

If the rack has spacers to reduce bump steer then the rack is pushed closer to the steering wheel and sometime binding like you describe occurs.
With the typical "bump steer" kits it is not usually a problem but si=ometimes it is.

Things I have done to alleviate the pressure:

The first 2 are really just making sure everything is correct to begin with.

1 Make sure the rack is sitting square on the spacers and as far forward as the slight play in the bolt holes allow.

2 Make sure the steering column is mounted squarely and not angled more than normal.

3 Loosen all the u-joint pinch bolts nd try to shift the u-joints farther on to the shats.
There is a little play or clearance in the groove cut for each bolt, all 4 add up to a little extra room.

4 I have replaced the 8 mm diameter pinch bolts with 7 mm diameter bolts. This allows more room for the joints to slide on to the shafts and gives some extra space. Use good quality bolts.

Jim

Oh and yes you have to drop the rack to get the boot/cover back on.

[naro914]

Thanks for the advice. So..yes the car has had damage (those that know Huey know...check out the story on the NaroEscape Motorsports website link in my sig)
And yes it has bump steer spacers, which is what I started thinking about before I saw your post.. I was looking at the shaft where the bearing should be riding on and it’s pushed up too high. So I took them out and made them half size and it seems to be more centered. But... for the life of me I can’t get the bushings and bearing back where it goes. Can’t get the rubber bushing that’s around the bearing to go into place, and don’t know if the bearing is in place. Or if it’s any good since it’s probably been off the correct place on the shaft all this time.
So I decided I’ll take out the rack, replace the bearing and bushing...and the puck too while I’m at it. Ordered it all from 914 rubber earlier. Might as well do it right while I’m here.

Btw cuddy...would have loved to see the remove and replace of the rack in your video. Do you have to take off the aux support? Last time I did a rack we were redoing the entire front end suspension so it was all out.
And FYI, this has a relatively recently installed quick ratio rack so it’s not worn out or anything. I know a quick ratio rack will be a bit harder to steer when going slow, but this is really hard all the time.

I’ll post progress. Need to get a tie rod puller tomorrow..

[Mikey914]

I do suspect the damage may have things slightly out of alignment.
The question is; its it in tolerance for a simple adgustment?
May well be the case that you can find some room as this may have just been the last part to go on and it seemed to git at the time. With just some gental persuasion.

Check the rack as its been under an abnormal load. It should turn freely, and not have any "slop" to it. I do jave a few rebuilts on the shelf and an exchange should be possible if you need one.

Mark

[naro914]

I do suspect the damage may have things slightly out of alignment.
The question is; its it in tolerance for a simple adgustment?
May well be the case that you can find some room as this may have just been the last part to go on and it seemed to git at the time. With just some gental persuasion.

Check the rack as its been under an abnormal load. It should turn freely, and not have any "slop" to it. I do jave a few rebuilts on the shelf and an exchange should be possible if you need one.

Mark

Hi Mark
once I took out the bump steer spacers, it seems to line up fine. When we put them in, we just pushed the rack upward and didn't think about the consequences upline in the shaft. I'll be putting bump steer kit on the tie rod ends instead...

I ordered a few things from you last night. Can you make sure they get out quickly? I need to get this all back together this coming weekend...got an SCCA Hilllclimb coming up in 2 weeks!
thanks

[iankarr]

Glad to see that you're on your way to getting this sorted. No, you don't need to remove the aux support...just the two bolts which hold the rack to it.

Thanks for the note on the video. I wanted to shoot the actual removal of the rack, but I didn't have a third set of hands handy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif). Best I could do was describe it. Will definitely shoot it in more detail next time.

[naro914]

Ok, I have no clue how to get the rack out without dropping the entire suspension. The master cylinder and the brackets for the aux support are in the way. Can’t go sideways since the shaft is up into the car...

Suggestions? What am I missing?

[Mikey914]

I do suspect the damage may have things slightly out of alignment.
The question is; its it in tolerance for a simple adgustment?
May well be the case that you can find some room as this may have just been the last part to go on and it seemed to git at the time. With just some gental persuasion.

Check the rack as its been under an abnormal load. It should turn freely, and not have any "slop" to it. I do jave a few rebuilts on the shelf and an exchange should be possible if you need one.

Mark

Hi Mark
once I took out the bump steer spacers, it seems to line up fine. When we put them in, we just pushed the rack upward and didn't think about the consequences upline in the shaft. I'll be putting bump steer kit on the tie rod ends instead...

I ordered a few things from you last night. Can you make sure they get out quickly? I need to get this all back together this coming weekend...got an SCCA Hilllclimb coming up in 2 weeks!
thanks

Ran your tracking and these should show up later today.
mark
And I've never done it without dropping it all.

[wysri9]

And I sure as hell am struggling to get mine in without dropping the cross member (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) ...No idea what dismantling is like as I bought a box of bits (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[iankarr]

I know that, on my car, I could get the rack out (and in) without dropping the aux support. Pulling it was a two man job. One person in the cabin prying the U joint apart to let the splined shaft slide out...while another is under the car pulling the rack down (yanking, really). MAKE SURE THE CAR IS VERY STABLE!

EDIT: I deleted what I wrote here about dropping the support being easy, as I was having a brain fart.

[naro914]

I know that, on my car, I could get the rack out without dropping the aux support. It was a two man job. One person in the cabin prying the U joint apart to let the splined shaft slide out...while another is under the car pulling down (yanking, really). MAKE SURE THE CAR IS VERY STABLE!

That said, dropping the aux support is a 5 minute thing...just 4 bolts. And it should have no effect on alignment or steering geometry. Might give you the wiggle room you need. Certainly couldn't hurt.

4 bolts? I took out the big 19mm ones near the torsion bar “hinge” , and even th 4 up at the control arms up front. Support won’t budge....which I can’t understand since nothing is holding it in except at the bottom of the strut....hmm....and the sway bars....hmmmm

[iankarr]

I know that, on my car, I could get the rack out without dropping the aux support. It was a two man job. One person in the cabin prying the U joint apart to let the splined shaft slide out...while another is under the car pulling down (yanking, really). MAKE SURE THE CAR IS VERY STABLE!

That said, dropping the aux support is a 5 minute thing...just 4 bolts. And it should have no effect on alignment or steering geometry. Might give you the wiggle room you need. Certainly couldn't hurt.

4 bolts? I took out the big 19mm ones near the torsion bar “hinge” , and even th 4 up at the control arms up front. Support won’t budge....which I can’t understand since nothing is holding it in except at the bottom of the strut....hmm....and the sway bars....hmmmm

Sorry...I was having a brain fart when I wrote that. The A arms are tied in by the bracket at the front, the sway bar and the ball joint. I hope I don't have early onset carzheimers.

[naro914]

I know that, on my car, I could get the rack out without dropping the aux support. It was a two man job. One person in the cabin prying the U joint apart to let the splined shaft slide out...while another is under the car pulling down (yanking, really). MAKE SURE THE CAR IS VERY STABLE!

That said, dropping the aux support is a 5 minute thing...just 4 bolts. And it should have no effect on alignment or steering geometry. Might give you the wiggle room you need. Certainly couldn't hurt.

4 bolts? I took out the big 19mm ones near the torsion bar “hinge” , and even th 4 up at the control arms up front. Support won’t budge....which I can’t understand since nothing is holding it in except at the bottom of the strut....hmm....and the sway bars....hmmmm

Sorry...I was having a brain fart when I wrote that. The A arms are tied in by the bracket at the front, the sway bar and the ball joint. I hope I don't have early onset carzheimers.

Lol... I saw your edit after I hit Post.so you’re saying I may have to take it all apart? That Really sucks, especially if it affects the alignment. I have nobody that can give it an alignment befor the hillclimb next weekend...

[iankarr]

I’m just saying that removing the aux carrier is not as simple as four bolts. I was able to remove my steering rack and put it back in with the aux carrier in place. Have you tried removing the rack using the two-man method?

[naro914]

I’m just saying that removing the aux carrier is not as simple as four bolts. I was able to remove my steering rack and put it back in with the aux carrier in place. Have you tried removing the rack using the two-man method?

So it’s out but I had to remove/loosen everything except where it connects to the ball joint. Removed all the bolts, disconnected the sway bars and pried it down. Hardest part was getting it by the master cylinder. No clue how it’s going to go back in, in tact with the shroud over the puck and all...

FYI, I had loosened the the U-joint enough at the shaft at the bulkhead that the shaft just slipped out easily, so didn’t need someone there....not that I had anyone anyway..

Now, if Fed Ex would deliver my parts from 914Rubber, we’d be in business!

[naro914]

Good thing I ordered a new bearing and bushing...these are ugly...

[iankarr]

The condition of that bearing may be related to why you couldn't pull the rack out without loosening everything. I wonder if anyone here can offer advice on how to measure the placement of the rack/aux support and determine if the prior front end damage knocked things out of whack.