 smokey car, On de-acceleration I get smoke from my tail pipe :( |
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| mitchdiego1 |
 Jun 17 2019, 10:40 AM
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#1
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Newbie  Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 19-May 19 From: oceanside ca Member No.: 23,145 Region Association: Southern California  |
Hi all, I am new here. So wished I found this site years ago. Lots of good info!!!! Any way, I am getting a lot of smoke on de-acceleration after my 1976 2.0L has warmed up. I was thinking my oil rings were sticking. Also thinking maybe valve guides? The engine was rebuilt in 2000 and I really only drove it until 2005 as a daily driver. The transmission went bad and it wasn't really driven. House and 2 teenage daughters came first. I would putt around at least once a month. I could go on and on so longer story short I have been driving it since 2015 and it has been smoking like I said. A little on acceleration not bad though. Any info would help. Other than that it runs great and my 914 is going into the shop soon for new paint so I am going to pull the engine and transmission. (PS I originally posted this in the wrong forum. duh)
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| oakdalecurtis |
Jun 17 2019, 11:54 AM
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#2
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Oakdalecurtis Group: Members Posts: 1,323 Joined: 5-June 15 From: Oakdale, Ca Member No.: 18,802 Region Association: Central California 
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Hi Mitch, I have a 76 2.0 also, and it also smoked a little on deceleration. And yes, the smoke is probably from worn rings or valve guides. Much has been said in this forum about motor oils for our cars, so I won't go over it again. Try using some Brad Penn 20/50 Racing oil, ordered online. When I switched to that oil, my engine's smoking stopped completely. The oil is not cheap, but compared to an engine rebuild, it's chump change.
This oil has higher levels of ZDPP to protect older engines. Also, use only a Royal Purple 20-253, Mahle OC-28, or Mann W920/17 oil filter, also ordered online. Change oil filter from below, on passenger side of engine block near firewall. PAN PLUG TORQUE IS ONLY 16 ft/lbs, and SUMP PLUG IS ONLY 9.4 ft/lbs. Any more torque will cause BIG damage to engine. Install a new crush washer (AutoAtlanta has them) on the pan plug, with the washer seam TOWARD the bolt head. NEVER let an oil change shop do the oil change, as they are clueless and will over torque the plug and damage the engine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
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| euro911 |
Jun 17 2019, 02:03 PM
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#3
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Retired & living the dream. God help me if I wake up! Group: Members Posts: 8,845 Joined: 2-December 06 From: So.Cal. & No.AZ (USA) Member No.: 7,300 Region Association: Southern California
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Don't go more than 7 ft lbs on the drain plug bolt.
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| mitchdiego1 |
Jun 17 2019, 03:07 PM
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#4
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 19-May 19 From: oceanside ca Member No.: 23,145 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(oakdalecurtis @ Jun 17 2019, 10:54 AM)  Hi Mitch, I have a 76 2.0 also, and it also smoked a little on deceleration. And yes, the smoke is probably from worn rings or valve guides. Much has been said in this forum about motor oils for our cars, so I won't go over it again. Try using some Brad Penn 20/50 Racing oil, ordered online. When I switched to that oil, my engine's smoking stopped completely. The oil is not cheap, but compared to an engine rebuild, it's chump change. This oil has higher levels of ZDPP to protect older engines. Also, use only a Royal Purple 20-253, Mahle OC-28, or Mann W920/17 oil filter, also ordered online. Change oil filter from below, on passenger side of engine block near firewall. PAN PLUG TORQUE IS ONLY 16 ft/lbs, and SUMP PLUG IS ONLY 9.4 ft/lbs. Any more torque will cause BIG damage to engine. Install a new crush washer (AutoAtlanta has them) on the pan plug, with the washer seam TOWARD the bolt head. NEVER let an oil change shop do the oil change, as they are clueless and will over torque the plug and damage the engine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Sweet thanks. Going online to get the correct oil and filter today! |
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| Rand |
Jun 17 2019, 03:09 PM
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#5
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Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,409 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
This is a garage topic and admin will surely move it there where you'll get more exposure to people who can help.
Decel smoke points to valve seats to me, but the real Type4 experts will help. My concern is this may lead to a dropped valve seat (or may be in progress). Not uncommon after so many years. If they let go completely, it gets catastrophic. Proceed with caution. |
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| mitchdiego1 |
Jun 17 2019, 03:09 PM
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#6
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 19-May 19 From: oceanside ca Member No.: 23,145 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(euro911 @ Jun 17 2019, 01:03 PM) Don't go more than 7 ft lbs on the drain plug bolt. Thanks for the info! |
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| 914_7T3 |
Jun 17 2019, 03:12 PM
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#7
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Please forgive me, I'm new to all of this! Group: Members Posts: 1,846 Joined: 3-April 17 From: Los Angeles, CA Member No.: 20,991 Region Association: Southern California
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Although my 2.0 had great compression when I bought it, it also had a lot of oil burning on deceleration. Turned out to be valve guides. Car was also repainted once the drive train was pulled, so that's a good way to approach it.
Good luck with this project. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
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| Rand |
Jun 17 2019, 03:15 PM
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#8
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Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,409 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
Oil and filter won't fix this. Not sure why someone would suggest that as an answer. Those are band aids on something more important. Take it for what you will. If the OP is forthright, start doing compression and leakdown tests and report back.
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| flyer86d |
Jun 17 2019, 03:47 PM
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 421 Joined: 12-January 11 From: Corea, Maine Member No.: 12,585 Region Association: North East States |
Valve guides and valve stem seals.
Charlie |
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| euro911 |
Jun 17 2019, 03:56 PM
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#10
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Retired & living the dream. God help me if I wake up! Group: Members Posts: 8,845 Joined: 2-December 06 From: So.Cal. & No.AZ (USA) Member No.: 7,300 Region Association: Southern California
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I've never seen valve stem seals on a type 4 motor ... (type 1 or type 2 either).
They're seen on type 616 (912) and 911 motors though.  |
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| mitchdiego1 |
Jun 17 2019, 05:52 PM
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#11
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 19-May 19 From: oceanside ca Member No.: 23,145 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(914_7T3 @ Jun 17 2019, 02:12 PM) Although my 2.0 had great compression when I bought it, it also had a lot of oil burning on deceleration. Turned out to be valve guides. Car was also repainted once the drive train was pulled, so that's a good way to approach it. Good luck with this project. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Yep, this is what I was afraid of. No biggy, motor and trans are coming out for painting anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) I will be changing to the new oil though. Compression testing this weekend. I will keep everyone posted |
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| Jetsetsurfshop |
Jun 17 2019, 06:03 PM
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#12
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 814 Joined: 7-April 11 From: Marco Island Florida Member No.: 12,907 Region Association: South East States |
Did you check if you have pressure in the crankcase? I cracked a piston (see picture) and it smoked up the track pretty good.
While the car is running remove the oil cap and see if you have white smoke coming from the filler tube. From my experience it means a cracked ring or piston. It may sound terrible but i'd rather deal with a bum piston over s dropped valve seat any day! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) Attached thumbnail(s) 
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| Jgilliam914 |
Jun 17 2019, 06:22 PM
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#13
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,327 Joined: 30-July 12 From: Iowa / Florida Member No.: 14,732 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I also had it when the crankcase was over filled once
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| lierofox |
Jun 17 2019, 09:20 PM
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 23-June 15 From: Paso Robles, CA Member No.: 18,880 Region Association: Southern California
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QUOTE(Jetsetsurfshop @ Jun 17 2019, 05:03 PM) Did you check if you have pressure in the crankcase? I cracked a piston (see picture) and it smoked up the track pretty good. While the car is running remove the oil cap and see if you have white smoke coming from the filler tube. From my experience it means a cracked ring or piston. It may sound terrible but i'd rather deal with a bum piston over s dropped valve seat any day! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) "Excuse you but if someone drops a valve seat I'm gonna gobble it right up thank you very much!" -Mr Piston. https://i.imgur.com/9dZ58pb.jpg "Absolutely delicious, won't you try some as well, Mister Cylinder Head?" https://i.imgur.com/cpcilMi.jpg |
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| porschetub |
Jun 17 2019, 10:56 PM
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#15
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,697 Joined: 25-July 15 From: New Zealand Member No.: 18,995 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(euro911 @ Jun 18 2019, 09:56 AM) I've never seen valve stem seals on a type 4 motor ... (type 1 or type 2 either). They're seen on type 616 (912) and 911 motors though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) strange how some have mentioned that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ,change the oil by any means and go out and give it a good HARD run. Get someone else drive it as you follow in another car if the smoke is bad under heavy throttle, then its rebuild time,smoke on overrun is far less of an issue than that under acceleration. |
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| mitchdiego1 |
Jun 18 2019, 07:55 AM
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#16
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 19-May 19 From: oceanside ca Member No.: 23,145 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(Jetsetsurfshop @ Jun 17 2019, 05:03 PM) Did you check if you have pressure in the crankcase? I cracked a piston (see picture) and it smoked up the track pretty good. While the car is running remove the oil cap and see if you have white smoke coming from the filler tube. From my experience it means a cracked ring or piston. It may sound terrible but i'd rather deal with a bum piston over s dropped valve seat any day! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) NO white smoke!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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| Dave_Darling |
Jun 18 2019, 09:16 AM
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#17
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,981 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California
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Smoke on overrun is a classic symptom of needing new valve guides.
No stem seals on these motors. Rings will usually smoke under load, not on overrun. --DD |
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| mitchdiego1 |
Jun 18 2019, 04:32 PM
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#18
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 19-May 19 From: oceanside ca Member No.: 23,145 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Jun 18 2019, 08:16 AM) Smoke on overrun is a classic symptom of needing new valve guides. No stem seals on these motors. Rings will usually smoke under load, not on overrun. --DD Thanks Dave, I am hearing more and more that the valve guides are suspect. By the way just had my 914 smogged and passed with flying colors!! woohoo!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) |
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| Jetsetsurfshop |
Jun 18 2019, 06:00 PM
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#19
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 814 Joined: 7-April 11 From: Marco Island Florida Member No.: 12,907 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Jun 18 2019, 07:16 AM) Smoke on overrun is a classic symptom of needing new valve guides. No stem seals on these motors. Rings will usually smoke under load, not on overrun. --DD It did smoked bad under load. All crankcase smoke. I didn't see the notice the tail pipe mention in the description. I'm guessing valve guides. |
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| mitchdiego1 |
Jul 6 2019, 03:21 PM
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#20
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 19-May 19 From: oceanside ca Member No.: 23,145 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(oakdalecurtis @ Jun 17 2019, 10:54 AM) Hi Mitch, I have a 76 2.0 also, and it also smoked a little on deceleration. And yes, the smoke is probably from worn rings or valve guides. Much has been said in this forum about motor oils for our cars, so I won't go over it again. Try using some Brad Penn 20/50 Racing oil, ordered online. When I switched to that oil, my engine's smoking stopped completely. The oil is not cheap, but compared to an engine rebuild, it's chump change. This oil has higher levels of ZDPP to protect older engines. Also, use only a Royal Purple 20-253, Mahle OC-28, or Mann W920/17 oil filter, also ordered online. Change oil filter from below, on passenger side of engine block near firewall. PAN PLUG TORQUE IS ONLY 16 ft/lbs, and SUMP PLUG IS ONLY 9.4 ft/lbs. Any more torque will cause BIG damage to engine. Install a new crush washer (AutoAtlanta has them) on the pan plug, with the washer seam TOWARD the bolt head. NEVER let an oil change shop do the oil change, as they are clueless and will over torque the plug and damage the engine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Changed to the pen racing oil and my car runs way cooler!! Thanks bro! Also way less smoking. I do need to do my valve guides but not this year. My car is going in for paint finally after 22 years. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif) |
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