Weird Starting Problem, Won't start after going some distance Options

[Lyressa Roberts]

I have a really strange problem with my car. If I go any distance (say 15 to 20 miles) and kill the car, I have to let it sit and cool off for at least an hour or so before the motor will even attempt to turn over again.

When you turn the key on, you can hear the fuel pump, but when you turn it...nothing.

It will push start.

After sufficient cooling time, it turns over fine and I'm gone.

It's not an engine problem and I don't want to think it is a starter problem, but it's driving me nuts.

Any suggestions?

[Trekkor]

Starter, starter, definately starter... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif)

KT

[Trekkor]

The "classic" hot start problem.
I use the "hated" aux relay quick and dirty fix.
this provides more voltage to turn the starter when it is internally expanded due to heat.

This works until the starter finally quits...

KT

[ClayPerrine]

Probably the easiest way to fix it permanently is to get a gear reduction starter. I recently had a conversation with the owner of a Porsche shop here in town and he said that the US rebuilder for bosch starters is shortcutting the process. They just ohm check the armature, put new brushes in, slap on a new solenoid, and a coat of black paint. The starter will act as a heat sink for the engine when it's off, and it will get hotter than when it's running. The heat will cause it to take more pull in voltage to spin the motor.

The gear reduction units are new, high torque units. They are lighter and more powerful than the direct drive starters for a 914. I put one on Betty's car and drove it home from work an hour in rush hour traffic. I went inside for 10 minutes or so, then moved the car into the garage. It started like normal. Before I put the gear reduction unit on, it wouldn't start after sitting for 10 minutes.

I don't know if the one's for 165 (I think that was the price) are new, but I am sure that the ones for 225 are. I think it's money well spent.

[Joe Bob]

Marry a 914 guy...ooopsie...you did that....K....next thing.....do what the other guys suggest.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[Lyressa Roberts]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) Funny Z.

Well, darn. I was hoping it was something easy. It has a 911 starter on it right now and I would like to stay with that mode as it starts the car "Quick"...no 'normal' 914 start (slllloooowwww).

I guess I can see if Brad can get me a discount... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[Joe Bob]

Most likely a dry solenoid....it can be removed and lubed.....if it's not too fried. Kinda like me on a bad friday night when I was single.

[rhodyguy]

r bontempi and a guy you know got me a bosch starter when mine crapped out on the way to wcc04. it's performed flawlessly. $89. the ford relay method (pictured) isn't worth the hassle.

k

[Eric_Shea]

Why is the relay hated? I have one on my 911 and it's only been a problem solver. The hot start thing didn't happen often enough but it's nice to have the relay in there for those days it did...

[Lyressa Roberts]

Well, I don't know much about starters or quick fixes, but I would prefer to just have it work right. I imagine the starter is close to being toast or it wouldn't be doing what it's doing.

[rhodyguy]

so she buys a relay. if she isn't handy with a drill and tools, and has to pay shop rates to have it installed, there's no upside. with the new starter, i think the 2 wire nuts, 1 spade terminal, and 2 nuts for the starter are faster to install than the relay. to be more specific, my starter WITH a ford relay crapped out for good on the way to california in 04'. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

k

[Eric_Shea]

QUOTE

I imagine the starter is close to being toast or it wouldn't be doing what it's doing.

I put that same relay ($20.95 BTW) on my 911 12 years ago. Still starts.

Let me know if you need one. I sell them for $20.95

[Lyressa Roberts]

Well, Rhodyguy has a good point. I don't want to have to pay a shop to Jerryrig something when I can just pay them to fix it right. I don't have the space, time, or inclination to "do-it-myself". I'll just pay once and be done...

But thanks for all the advice. I still wish it wasn't the starter... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)

[rhodyguy]

r & r on the starter should take no longer than 1/2 hour lyressa. but i'm sure you know to ask labor costs upfront.

k

[Lyressa Roberts]

Oh, yeah. If Brad won't fix it (which is hard from long distance... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) ), I'll just take it to Bontempe. I'm sure he wouldn't take advantage...I hope... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[914GT]

Before spending money, I'd take the cables off the battery terminals and clean them with a wire brush. Then I'd do the same for the big ground wire on the transaxle. And make sure the connection on the starter solenoid is clean and tight. It could be just an oxidized dirty connection is causing a little more voltage drop, and when the starter solenoid gets hot (higher resistance) there's not enough voltage to engage it. I've had a brand-new IMI gear drive starter do this when hot. Even with a new ignition switch, there's only about 9V at the solenoid when you start it. The relay boosts this up to close to the battery voltage. It may still be a bad starter but I'm just saying check the simple stuff first, might save you some cash.

[Lyressa Roberts]

Yea, Brad is going to take a look at it tomorrow...he said I have a hot start "wire" that he took off a while back because he didn't think I needed it...looks like I do now. But he said he would check it out to see if the starter is crapping out on me.

Oh, and after new tires, the front end of my car is STILL vibrating...damnit! Either the damn wheel weights won't stay on or my rims are crap. Brad's checking that out for me too...but I found some on San Jose for $1200 for 7s and 8s newly restored...cool, I'll buy those for streeters and keep my crappy rims for AX... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[redshift]

I do so love your car.... don't leave him alone with it..

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)


M

[McMark]

If you want to drive, I'll install the starter for you. Only takes 30 minutes. If you want some preventative measures get a heat wrap for it. It helps keep the starter from absorbing so much heat from the exhaust manifolds that run about 8 inches right below. HOT STUFF! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[Rand]

QUOTE

Why is the relay hated?

For me, because it's usually a crutch around another problem. It will "solve" some problems, but IMHO it's a band aid - and cleaning up the connections instead (like Guy said) will fix the problem correctly.

When I had "hot-start" problems, I REMOVED the "hot start relay" that a PO installed, put all the connections back the way Porsche intended them, cleaned them up good, and everything has been great since.

Electrical connections need to be clean. The more current they need, the cleaner they need to be. A hot-start relay will help a dirty circuit work, but I would rather clean it up than help it out with an add-on.

Just my experience and $.02.