Starter issue Options

[jrblackbox]

Ok, so I changed out the starter in my 6 with another starter I had collecting dust. Now upon turning the key there is a "delay" of a second or 2 before the car turns over. So when I turn the key I can hear the fuel pump come on, then the delay, then the car will crank. did i put the wrong starter in? Or do I need a high torque starter or??

[mepstein]

You shouldn't need a hi torque starter on a six.

[Mark Henry]

I don't know what is causing the delay.

I put the Hi-Torque starter in my /6 conversion, huge difference.
I have a high CR twinplug, the stock starter wouldn't turn the engine over brand new (had to bump start), and was slow once the engine was broken in, put the Hi-torque in and it's now zip-a-dee-doo-dah.
I only use the lawn tractor size battery odyssey PC680, I thought it was the battery but it was definitely the starter.

[Tdskip]

Odd - maybe a lot of resistance in the wires?

[mepstein]

I don't know what is causing the delay.

I put the Hi-Torque starter in my /6 conversion, huge difference.
I have a high CR twinplug, the stock starter wouldn't turn the engine over brand new (had to bump start), and was slow once the engine was broken in, put the Hi-torque in and it's now zip-a-dee-doo-dah.
I only use the lawn tractor size battery odyssey PC680, I thought it was the battery but it was definitely the starter.

Did you test the Porsche starter or just replace it. When we get them back from the rebuilder, they zing right up.

[Superhawk996]

Odd - maybe a lot of resistance in the wires?

Yes. Very good intuition! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

5 seconds sounds and awfully long delay to be created by an LR series circuit alone though. There is a minor delay is created by an LR L=Inductor (i.e. motor) R=Resistance series circuit. The time delay depends on the relative values between L & R.

In all practicality, what is probably happening is that you are getting a large voltage drop across high resistance starter motor cables that actually limits the voltage that the starter sees. As an alternatate possibility, you could have a bad commutator sector that isn't energizing properly and it takes some time for the starter motor to turn in response to the weaker than normal stator winding magnetic flux. Once the motor rotates that little bit and makes a better connection to the next commutator segment, the motor begins to spin faster, gains momentum and from there has enough intertia to "skip" over the bad segment.

Be sure your have fresh battery cables and a good (i.e. zero ohm) ground between the transmission and the body and a zero ohm cable between the battery positive and the starter solenoid. The OEM ground strap is often missing, or damaged leading to high resistance to the starter. If this ground strap is missing the clutch cable usually becomes the ground. The clutch cable is not a very good ground since it is stranded steel wire, and the high current that is trying to be drawn though the clutch cable leads to slow cranking, and, will eventually lead to catastrophic failure of the clutch cable when you least expect it. Ask me how I know . . . . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Basics of the LR circuit time delay are in link below.

https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/induct...r-circuits.html

[jrblackbox]

I don't know what is causing the delay.

I put the Hi-Torque starter in my /6 conversion, huge difference.
I have a high CR twinplug, the stock starter wouldn't turn the engine over brand new (had to bump start), and was slow once the engine was broken in, put the Hi-torque in and it's now zip-a-dee-doo-dah.
I only use the lawn tractor size battery odyssey PC680, I thought it was the battery but it was definitely the starter.

Did you test the Porsche starter or just replace it. When we get them back from the rebuilder, they zing right up.

Just replaced it with an untested 1 I had.

[jrblackbox]

Odd - maybe a lot of resistance in the wires?

Yes. Very good intuition! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

5 seconds sounds and awfully long delay to be created by an LR series circuit alone though. There is a minor delay is created by an LR L=Inductor (i.e. motor) R=Resistance series circuit. The time delay depends on the relative values between L & R.

In all practicality, what is probably happening is that you are getting a large voltage drop across high resistance starter motor cables that actually limits the voltage that the starter sees. As an alternatate possibility, you could have a bad commutator sector that isn't energizing properly and it takes some time for the starter motor to turn in response to the weaker than normal stator winding magnetic flux. Once the motor rotates that little bit and makes a better connection to the next commutator segment, the motor begins to spin faster, gains momentum and from there has enough intertia to "skip" over the bad segment.

Be sure your have fresh battery cables and a good (i.e. zero ohm) ground between the transmission and the body and a zero ohm cable between the battery positive and the starter solenoid. The OEM ground strap is often missing, or damaged leading to high resistance to the starter. If this ground strap is missing the clutch cable usually becomes the ground. The clutch cable is not a very good ground since it is stranded steel wire, and the high current that is trying to be drawn though the clutch cable leads to slow cranking, and, will eventually lead to catastrophic failure of the clutch cable when you least expect it. Ask me how I know . . . . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Basics of the LR circuit time delay are in link below.

https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/induct...r-circuits.html

Not 5 seconds, more like a second or 2 only. Definitely longer to crank since swapping starters.

[Tom]

The easiest way to determine if it is the starter or wiring/connections is to jump the starter at the solenoid. Jumper the battery large cable to the connection where the yellow start wire hooks up. If there is a delay, it is the starter. If no delay, you have some extra resistance in the wiring/connections. I would bet on bad connections. If the connections look good initially, look closer for any corrosion inside the connectors to wire junction where it is crimped.
Remember, there are many connections between the battery and the starter solenoid: at the battery where the 4.0 mm wire is bolted to the battery terminal, where the ring connector is crimped to the 4.0mm wire, at the key switch input, the internal contacts, if a later 914 there are two connections for the seat belt relay, at the relay board input connector, at the relay board output connector, and at the starter solenoid. That is at least 9 points for the connections to "drop" voltage and this is not counting the solder connections at the 14 pin and 12 pin connectors at the relay board. Lots of places for a 914 to lose voltage between the battery and starter solenoid.
Might be time for the starter relay modification in your car.
Tom

[Superhawk996]

Not 5 seconds, more like a second or 2 only. Definitely longer to crank since swapping starters.

Sorry, my bad. Don't know how I got to 5, you clearly mentioned one or two now that I re-read it.

Follow Tom's advice for the quick check of "jumpering" the solenoid control to the Battery + lead.

[porschetub]

Sounds like its just dirty inside,they can be sluggish to turn if the commutator is glazed up with carbon from the brushes or the brushes are worn.
Used to polish the commutators in a lathe after recutting the segments with a modified fine hacksaw blade,brushes don't normally wear too much but aren't hard to change if needs be.

Worth checking the solenoid is sticking up also,that can slow things down.
Good luck.

[jrblackbox]

Thanks all for the info. I will buy a new starter (probably should have done that in the first place) and hopefully this issue will go away, if not, at least I know it isn't the starter.

[Mark Henry]

Thanks all for the info. I will buy a new starter (probably should have done that in the first place) and hopefully this issue will go away, if not, at least I know it isn't the starter.

Cheaper to do the screwdriver test and if this works add the Ford solenoid fix, the "how to" linky is in my signature below. Total cost is about $25.

[Superhawk996]

Cheaper to do the screwdriver test and if this works add the Ford solenoid fix, the "how to" linky is in my signature below. Total cost is about $25.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Spoke]

Sluggish turn-on could be a gummed up bendix. The bendix pushes the starter gear and closes the contact for the actual motor. If gummed up it takes a moment to move to push the gear into the flywheel and engage the starter motor.

[jrblackbox]

Thanks to all that responded to my issue. It was the starter, probably should have just gotten a new rebuilt from the beginning, but we all know about that!~