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> Chinese Parts, A Rant to Start Discussion
jfort
post Mar 25 2020, 03:58 PM
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I was looking for parts on Pelican yesterday. I can't tell if the parts are Chinese knock offs or not. I have confirmed the lack of information with my friend and mechanic Jay Kjoller. He has a number of recent horror stories of substandard parts and the worst thing is that the vendor didn't even know, when questioned, that they are Chinese and swears otherwise. Jay spoke with the manufacturer (parts for a transmission) who said they stamp an identifying mark because people will file a warranty claim with them in spite of the fact that it is a knock off. On Pelican, the listing for one of the parts will show the colors of the German flag and say "OEM." It's Chinese stuff. Jay had rod bolts that were so out of spec that they wouldn't even fit. After two bad orders he ordered from Germany. The transmission parts were also grossly out of spec. From a Colorado vendor. The box was a poor attempt at duplicating the real manufacturer's. Jay finally ordered from Australia. I don't know what to order most times.

But I'll say this, I think vendors ought to be required to indicate the country of origin. We consumers ought to demand it. Further, I think it is misleading to say "OEM". Beyond that, there is a word for providing misleading information that is material to the buyer's decision -- FRAUD.
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dr914@autoatlanta.com
post Mar 25 2020, 04:00 PM
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we have them designated G is genuine R is german replacement, b are parts we make, and the other prefixes are chinese


QUOTE(jfort @ Mar 25 2020, 02:58 PM) *

I was looking for parts on Pelican yesterday. I can't tell if the parts are Chinese knock offs or not. I have confirmed the lack of information with my friend and mechanic Jay Kjoller. He has a number of recent horror stories of substandard parts and the worst thing is that the vendor didn't even know, when questioned, that they are Chinese and swears otherwise. Jay spoke with the manufacturer (parts for a transmission) who said they stamp an identifying mark because people will file a warranty claim with them in spite of the fact that it is a knock off. On Pelican, the listing for one of the parts will show the colors of the German flag and say "OEM." It's Chinese stuff. Jay had rod bolts that were so out of spec that they wouldn't even fit. After two bad orders he ordered from Germany. The transmission parts were also grossly out of spec. From a Colorado vendor. The box was a poor attempt at duplicating the real manufacturer's. Jay finally ordered from Australia. I don't know what to order most times.

But I'll say this, I think vendors ought to be required to indicate the country of origin. We consumers ought to demand it. Further, I think it is misleading to say "OEM". Beyond that, there is a work for providing misleading information that is material to the buyer's decision -- FRAUD.

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bbrock
post Mar 25 2020, 04:12 PM
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I also fell for the "OEM" thing. Luckily the part I bought looked to be good quality but it still pisses me off. As near as I can tell, "OEM" is a brand which is pretty shady if you ask me. I've also seen parts on there listed as "original equipment manufacturer" which is much more helpful, but confusing to have to know that OEM doesn't mean the same thing. And then there are "Genuine Porsche" parts. All is fine except that "OEM" as a knock-off brand. Sleazy.
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Unobtanium-inc
post Mar 25 2020, 05:00 PM
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I ordered a 911 tail light lens from one of the larger vendors one time, paid extra for the OEM Hella one. It arrived in a white box with no name, when I asked why it wasn't in a Hella box, the vendor said it was made at the same plant in the Czech Republic, so it was as good as the Hella one. But I paid for the Hella one!
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Mikey914
post Mar 25 2020, 05:24 PM
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ANY seller of parts should be willing to take back substandard parts, and pay the shipping!
If you sell it your name is on it.
That's our policy
It will keep substandard parts from being sold. It gets real expensive if you get a lot of returns.

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porschetub
post Mar 25 2020, 10:06 PM
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Sad thing is some ''name brand'' companies are getting parts made there and the QC is very poor,bought a Meyle rear Golf engine mount and it turned to mush in a very short time ,alloy control arms for many late euro cars have had a high early failure rate because the rubber inserts are low quality and too soft ,this has been well documented on Audi and BMW forums.
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davep
post Mar 25 2020, 10:30 PM
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I worked for a manufacturer for 29 years. In that time we transitioned a lot of parts to Chinese manufacturers due to price for the most part. We learned to be VERY selective due to quality concerns. Even from good suppliers we often got defective batches. On the other hand, some parts were higher quality than we could get elsewhere; aluminum extrusions were one item where I could only get what I wanted in China. If the purchaser does not demand and qualify the product specifications then you will get off spec parts.
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Superhawk996
post Mar 26 2020, 05:53 AM
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QUOTE(davep @ Mar 26 2020, 12:30 AM) *

I worked for a manufacturer for 29 years. In that time we transitioned a lot of parts to Chinese manufacturers due to price for the most part. We learned to be VERY selective due to quality concerns. Even from good suppliers we often got defective batches. On the other hand, some parts were higher quality than we could get elsewhere; aluminum extrusions were one item where I could only get what I wanted in China. If the purchaser does not demand and qualify the product specifications then you will get off spec parts.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Nothing wrong with China. It's all about quality control and holding the suppliers accountable.

I've seen perfectly fine bushings come out of China. I've see some really lousy dampers come out of U.S. facilities. How many realize that many of the big brand names source out of China, Eastern Europe, or South America?

More often than not, you get what you pay for. If you go to a low cost supplier that has drastically undercut their competitors, get ready to get bent over later when they can't deliver on thier quality targets and empty promises.

There is a German supplier in particular that everyone here would recognize by name. Everytime I've had to deal with them in the U.S. market, they over promise, underdeliver, and leave me wishing they would just get out of the business.
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914Sixer
post Mar 26 2020, 06:32 AM
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What I have leaned is they seems to be DIFFERENT quality levels where there used to be only ONE. Looking a some of the better sites you will find ECONOMY, STANDARD AND OEM. I think is a way to sell lousy parts. Rear wheel bearings are a good example. You can buy a economy bearing for as little as $15 or $85 for SKF.
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VaccaRabite
post Mar 26 2020, 06:52 AM
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QUOTE(914Sixer @ Mar 26 2020, 08:32 AM) *

What I have leaned is they seems to be DIFFERENT quality levels where there used to be only ONE. Looking a some of the better sites you will find ECONOMY, STANDARD AND OEM. I think is a way to sell lousy parts. Rear wheel bearings are a good example. You can buy a economy bearing for as little as $15 or $85 for SKF.


I actually appreciate that. Its the vendor saying - there is a choice, but you are rolling your dice with a cheaper cost.

While I probably would not want to buy the bargain basement wheel bearing, I may roll the dice on a less critical part.

Zach
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ConeDodger
post Mar 26 2020, 07:15 AM
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I think “OEM” is actually a brand name now...
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StarBear
post Mar 26 2020, 07:19 AM
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QUOTE(jfort @ Mar 25 2020, 05:58 PM) *

I was looking for parts on Pelican yesterday. I can't tell if the parts are Chinese knock offs or not. I have confirmed the lack of information with my friend and mechanic Jay Kjoller. He has a number of recent horror stories of substandard parts and the worst thing is that the vendor didn't even know, when questioned, that they are Chinese and swears otherwise. Jay spoke with the manufacturer (parts for a transmission) who said they stamp an identifying mark because people will file a warranty claim with them in spite of the fact that it is a knock off. On Pelican, the listing for one of the parts will show the colors of the German flag and say "OEM." It's Chinese stuff. Jay had rod bolts that were so out of spec that they wouldn't even fit. After two bad orders he ordered from Germany. The transmission parts were also grossly out of spec. From a Colorado vendor. The box was a poor attempt at duplicating the real manufacturer's. Jay finally ordered from Australia. I don't know what to order most times.

But I'll say this, I think vendors ought to be required to indicate the country of origin. We consumers ought to demand it. Further, I think it is misleading to say "OEM". Beyond that, there is a word for providing misleading information that is material to the buyer's decision -- FRAUD.

"I think vendors ought to be required to indicate the country of origin." - Producers are required; yes, sellers should be too; most do, particularly the more reputable ones. I stocked up on NOS backup parts several years ago. Haven't found a non-NOS emergency flasher/buzzer relay that's worked precisely correct yet.
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Mark Henry
post Mar 26 2020, 07:19 AM
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I bought a #8 "german" bearing from Vertex, the spec was so bad you could drive a truck between the bearing and journal. No need for measuring tools I could see easily a 1mm gap with my Mark I eye ball. I ended up DFL coating and reusing my old #8 bearing.
They took it back and paid the shipping, but what about the poor schmuck home builder who didn't think of the need to QC the fit of a new bearing?
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bbrock
post Mar 26 2020, 08:09 AM
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QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Mar 26 2020, 06:15 AM) *

I think “OEM” is actually a brand name now...


Yes, and it is confusing as hell. It is fine and good to say you get what you pay for, but we all know that genuine parts come with a hefty P-tax and this sort of sleazy branding makes it hard to figure out the best price on a quality part.

For example, look up oil filters on Pelican. You'll see genuine Porsche filters for $28.75 and one entry up is Mahle with a German flag icon and "OEM Supplier" next to it for $7.50. Why pay $21 extra for the same part? Then below the genuine filter is one from a brand called "Genuine." That's f'ing sleazy.

Now look up accelerator pedals. You get a choice of Genuine Porsche for $108 and also an offering for "OEM" also with a German flag but a different icon than for "OEM Supplier" for $22 That's the item I bought by mistake before I realized this f'd up and sleazy branding and labeling. It is Chinese and not OEM or from Germany.
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Minerva's 914
post Mar 26 2020, 08:25 AM
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The brand name OEM is very active on eBay. Mostly if not all JUNK.
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dr914@autoatlanta.com
post Mar 26 2020, 08:38 AM
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Genuine Porsche hood badges are made in China, along with many of their other parts,.

Funny, the other day we got an offer for porsche key fobs for about 3 dollars each in "genunie" Porsche boxes. The same ones they sell for over 25 dollars each. Was the same company making them for porsche selling them out the back door!
Then there were the Marelli distributor caps and rotors we make. Sales suddenly dropped off and other people were selling them. So I ordered several from different companies including Sierra Madre . Low and behold they were all marked auatl our brand name!!!!!!!! Another product slipped out the back door after I paid for all of the tooling!!!!!! NOW I am sitting on 500 of each that I will never sell
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Superhawk996
post Mar 26 2020, 09:22 AM
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QUOTE(dr914@autoatlanta.com @ Mar 26 2020, 10:38 AM) *

Genuine Porsche hood badges are made in China, along with many of their other parts,.

Funny, the other day we got an offer for porsche key fobs for about 3 dollars each in "genunie" Porsche boxes. The same ones they sell for over 25 dollars each. Was the same company making them for porsche selling them out the back door!
Then there were the Marelli distributor caps and rotors we make. Sales suddenly dropped off and other people were selling them. So I ordered several from different companies including Sierra Madre . Low and behold they were all marked auatl our brand name!!!!!!!! Another product slipped out the back door after I paid for all of the tooling!!!!!! NOW I am sitting on 500 of each that I will never sell


This is a very common problem. Great for the consumer (in some cases) but limted recourse for the supplier. Goes right back to picking the right partners . . . especially so in China. Their concept of intelectual property, property rights (of tooling), or moral business practices is not quite the same as ours.
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billh1963
post Mar 26 2020, 09:27 AM
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QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Mar 26 2020, 11:22 AM) *

This is a very common problem. Great for the consumer (in some cases) but limted recourse for the supplier. Goes right back to picking the right partners . . . especially so in China. Their concept of intelectual property, property rights (of tooling), or moral business practices is not quite the same as ours.


Isn't that what happened to the Vietnamese bumper GB that was attempted a few years ago?
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mrholland2
post Mar 26 2020, 09:36 AM
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QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 25 2020, 03:12 PM) *

I also fell for the "OEM" thing. Luckily the part I bought looked to be good quality but it still pisses me off. As near as I can tell, "OEM" is a brand which is pretty shady if you ask me. I've also seen parts on there listed as "original equipment manufacturer" which is much more helpful, but confusing to have to know that OEM doesn't mean the same thing. And then there are "Genuine Porsche" parts. All is fine except that "OEM" as a knock-off brand. Sleazy.



Like the Ronco compilation albums of the 70s. .all the songs by the Original Artists . . which was the name of the group that cheesily recorded the songs.
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Super90
post Mar 26 2020, 08:32 PM
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A lot has to do with individual country laws. Many EU and particularly Germany have laws that essentially say, no matter where its made, ifs its shipped into Germany,for example,and reboxed for sale, it is considered "Made in Germany"... I found this years ago when I had a parts supply company..started getting crankshafts made in Brazil, but came in boxes marked made in Germany. Maybe its changed but I doubt it. Hate to sound cynical but politicians in a any country and big business = not so good for end users. G
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