Do bumblebees sting?, My experience with John Forbes and his "Speed and Custom Shop" Options

[Unobtanium-inc]

I guess the question now is to the original poster, was he dealing with Black Forest Racing, or thought he was, or John Forbes. Who did he pay?
Going back through emails John was operating as Black Forest until at least 2015, that's my last email.

[Craigers17]

...Just to confuse things a bit more.... who is this guy? He says he's from Denver, NC too!

https://youtu.be/yYfUOoWgs_E



...For the love of Pete, you guys have a population of 2,300 people in your city, and, at least 3 shops that work on 914's....does everyone's brother-in-law own one? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

[CodyBFR]

I guess the question now is to the original poster, was he dealing with Black Forest Racing, or thought he was, or John Forbes. Who did he pay?
Going back through emails John was operating as Black Forest until at least 2015, that's my last email.

As in my original post John was here through 2017. We split ways in April of 2017. I did not help myself by allowing the john@blackforestracing.com email address to stay active for a bit after that, but currently it auto-responds that he's not here any longer.

I have spoken with Ian on the phone at length over this and he understands the situation. Further, I was able to press my father to make contact with Ian.

I invite Ian to post photos of any receipts he has, or (obviously redacted) credit card statements showing the business name that charged him. They will say John's Speed and Custom on them, not Black Forest Racing. Actually I shouldn't say that factually, I don't know what name he has his banking stuff under to be honest... But i know it's not Black Forest Racing. John's Speed and Custom is what it says on the door of his building that Ian entered.

[naro914]

...Just to confuse things a bit more.... who is this guy? He says he's from Denver, NC too!

https://youtu.be/yYfUOoWgs_E



...For the love of Pete, you guys have a population of 2,300 people in your city, and, at least 3 shops that work on 914's....does everyone's brother-in-law own one? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

LOL... yeah...and there's that... that is all in the bays RIGHT NEXT TO my space (again, across the parking lot from BFR and John Forbes Speed Shop)
Yes...its kinda 914 heaven...or hell depending on how you look at it.

Peter (video) has like a dozen 914's in there. He SAYS he's going to restore/rebuild them, but I've only seen him here once since I moved in (last July). He lives in Colorado. The guy that he hired to work on them died... so now they just sit...

Oh the stories I can tell about our little 'Peyton Place' neighborhood. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[CodyBFR]

...Just to confuse things a bit more.... who is this guy? He says he's from Denver, NC too!

https://youtu.be/yYfUOoWgs_E



...For the love of Pete, you guys have a population of 2,300 people in your city, and, at least 3 shops that work on 914's....does everyone's brother-in-law own one? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

That guy is literally in another unit of the complex we are in. Out of the 7 people occupying the two buildings at this address 5 of them are 914 owners. It all started when one of our customers in 2010 made us aware of this place availible which was an upgrade from the previous location. The location is so awesome that we convinced other people we knew to snatch up units as they became available, including Bob from NaroEscape who posted here.

[CodyBFR]

With regards to comments about email addresses... right now anybody on the planet can make any email address they want. I can make an email address "BillGatesMicrosoft@gmail.com" and use it however I want. That doesn't make me the former CEO of Microsoft.

[Unobtanium-inc]

I guess the question now is to the original poster, was he dealing with Black Forest Racing, or thought he was, or John Forbes. Who did he pay?
Going back through emails John was operating as Black Forest until at least 2015, that's my last email.

As in my original post John was here through 2017. We split ways in April of 2017. I did not help myself by allowing the john@blackforestracing.com email address to stay active for a bit after that, but currently it auto-responds that he's not here any longer.

I have spoken with Ian on the phone at length over this and he understands the situation. Further, I was able to press my father to make contact with Ian.

I invite Ian to post photos of any receipts he has, or (obviously redacted) credit card statements showing the business name that charged him. They will say John's Speed and Custom on them, not Black Forest Racing. Actually I shouldn't say that factually, I don't know what name he has his banking stuff under to be honest... But i know it's not Black Forest Racing. John's Speed and Custom is what it says on the door of his building that Ian entered.

You are correct, it's literally right next door. Sounds like this isn't the first time you've had to clear the air on who Black Forest is, I don't envy you that.

[CodyBFR]

You are correct, it's literally right next door. Sounds like this isn't the first time you've had to clear the air on who Black Forest is, I don't envy you that.

If you only knew.

[Mikey914]

Hey everybody, I was just made aware of this thread and something here needs to be cleared up. This has **NOTHING** to do with Black Forest Racing. The John Forbes in question here was fired from Black Forest Racing in 2017. This transaction was with him and his new business, John's Speed and Custom which operates next door to us. Issues like these are why I could not have him around anymore.

I feel for you, and I'm terribly sorry this happened, but I cannot have my business slandered. Black Forest Racing has **NOT** been involved in any restoration/paint work of any 914 since 2016. We do mostly newer cars, but I am a 914 fan (I inherited my mothers Bumblebee when she passed in 2002 and still have it) so I do still take in one from time to time for mechanical work.

John owned BFR from 1979-2014 and as such his name is deeply associated. 95% of customers were happy during those 35 years, but as John got older he started taking more and more shortcuts to make up for his declining health. This came to a head 5 years ago and got to a point where I couldn't keep him around any longer. Unfortunately, he rented a bay next to us which I can't control and this leads people to believe he is still associated with us, but he is not.

-John Cody Forbes (I go by Cody)

Yes,
I found this to be quite confusing. John did keep using BFR as a reference, I do recall doing business with Cody, Makes more sense to me now.

[Superhawk996]

Disinterested 3rd party.

Someone needs to move. I'm not sure who but the fact that you're each that close to each other's business can only lead to misunderstandings of this sort.

It is almost the same thing a a URL that changes only 1 character in the URL address to a common mispelling in order to ensnare the unsuspecting in malware, virus, or ransomeware attacks. I'm not saying that is the case. Only that you are too close for each others own good.

[iankarr]

Wow. This bumblebee hive is abuzz!

First...I had a nice chat with Cody. There's no doubt in my mind that he's had a greater dose of John's BS than I have and it caused him to "fire" his Dad. However, John did not go out of his way to distance himself from Black Forest Racing. When we first did the deal, his email was johnblackforest@gmail.com. Funny how where the @ falls can make a huge difference. Kinda $hitty that he would do that after his son clearly broke ties, but...

Cody's shop is, in fact next door to John's (name du jour.) I remember meeting him when I went down there and he had some cool builds going on.

Cody says he laid into John when he read the thread a few hours ago. Tellingly, but not surprisingly, John didn't pick up the phone to call me. I know that if my son came in, fuming about how my behavior was impacting his business, I'd do whatever I could-as fast as I could-to make things right.

I clarified what went down and asked Cody for his help. About five minutes later, John called. I won't bore everyone here with the dozens of excuses (literally) that were flying, but the winner was "I haven't been able to get into my shop because of the Covid shutdown." He was CALLING from his shop! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) It's like he was trying to sell excuses like an old-timey barker hawking wares out of a suitcase. You want a tie? No? How about these warm socks? No? Here's a wonderful belt...

I've noticed that one telling behavior of people who frequently have conflicts is their speaking tone stays the same, even when the other person is yelling. (I don't scream-I just become very, very intense- though my wife calls it yelling). It's as if these people are so used to hearing that raised tone, it doesn't affect them anymore.

Anyway... John should finally understand that his time is up. But time will tell. He told me that he would go through his shop and send me the missing parts by the end of next week. As to compensation for the garbage paint job and other stuff, he says he will try to find some stuff of value he can offer to balance the deal. The refund train unfortunately left the station long ago. And I wouldn't want to potentially gut some other poor ba$tard's project...if he even has one. I just want this over and will take a fair trade.

Thankfully, Cody seems to understand all angles of this situation and has offered to do whatever he can to help keep John "honest". I'm going to edit the original post and make the distinction between "John Forbes" and "Black Forest Racing." Fair is fair. Especially since Cody also wants to see this resolved satisfactorily.

I did tell John that I would update this thread with what he said. And if he ghosted again, I'd post that too. I only wish I could've recorded the call...now THAT video could have gone viral.

I can't thank you all enough for the support. You guys rock.

Ian

[CodyBFR]

Someone needs to move. I'm not sure who but the fact that you're each that close to each other's business can only lead to misunderstandings of this sort.

I agree, but we are stuck in a situation where the location is great so neither wants to leave. The landlord is a Saint, the rent is low, the geographical location is good, the supporting business around us are great (including mine there are 3 dynos on this street, there's 3 paint shops, two interior shops, 2 machine shops, 3 fabricators, 3 parts stores, all just on our actual road). The road is secluded enough that I test drive race cars here without issue.

At this point my father is 70. It's only a matter of time before he retires and I can take over the entire building. Not only that, but in the meantime there's nothing preventing him from telling anybody anything he wants regardless of where I'm located. As is I've commonly heard reports of him blurring the lines with statements like "that's the water cooled division and I do the old cars". He would be just as likely to say he was simply a remote location, and I wouldn't be around to put a lid on it.

[Unobtanium-inc]

You are correct, it's literally right next door. Sounds like this isn't the first time you've had to clear the air on who Black Forest is, I don't envy you that.

If you only knew.

If my 356 body ever reappears let me know, I'll come pick it up.

[Superhawk996]

I agree, but we are stuck in a situation where the location is great so neither wants to leave.

Fair point. But, if I were running a high class physical therapy & massage business right next door to a known whore house, I wouldn't be surprised if a customer or two came in every now and then expecting "full service".

The real question is if one business can outlast the other.

A good chunk of the value of business is it's good name and repuation. If you constantly have to spend time working on clean up in Aisle 2, that in turn costs you money one way or another. Is that hidden cost more than what you would pay to lease elsewhere? Only you can decide and I fully acknowledge that only you know the answer and can set your own operational strategy.

I respect the fact that Ian has made peace with the situation and my hat goes off to anytone trying to help Ian. Unfortunately this is a sitaution no one wants.

Reminds me of the old saying. The only ship that never stays afloat is a partnership. It's even worse when the partnership is family. I'm sorry to hear that you're struggling though this whole affair too.

[iankarr]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Especially when there are videos like this out there...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B7mMaxJk6I

The title is "John Forbes Black Forest Racing - March 2019" and features him in a BFR jacket.

[Unobtanium-inc]

I agree, but we are stuck in a situation where the location is great so neither wants to leave.

Fair point. But, if I were running a high class physical therapy & massage business right next door to a known whore house, I wouldn't be surprised if a customer or two came in every now and then expecting "full service".

That actually used to happen to a friend of mine who had a film lab in NYC. The place above her was a Japanese "Full Service" place that mostly catered to Japanese businessman tourists. It was a problem because a lot of times there wasn't a lot of English understood so getting across to horny dudes that there are at the wrong place was challenging. My friend would find herself screaming, "there is no Happy Ending here!!!"

[Superhawk996]

"there is no Happy Ending here!!!"

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

In more ways than one. Sorry I'm bad. I could't help myself. I really do feel for both Ian and Cody.

[FlacaProductions]

I'm awaiting an upcoming 20/20 episode.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

Oscar

I may know some people...heh heh...

[CodyBFR]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Especially when there are videos like this out there...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B7mMaxJk6I

The title is "John Forbes Black Forest Racing - March 2019" and features him in a BFR jacket.

Filmed on a Saturday when I was not here and wearing a jacket from 2004... perfect example of situations that I'm completely powerless to prevent and would be even worse if I wasn't around at all.

[CodyBFR]

He told me to call John to ask about the mechanicals. I let John talk me into building me one of his famous 2.2 L engines. What a fiasco!. His little boy mechanic installed two different cams in it. It took me a year and a half to get things straightened out and I had to use threats to turn him in to the IRS to get things fixed. The car now has a 3.2 in it.
The 2.2 had a short life
....
One lesson I have learned is not to take the car to someone who, races and hires relatives and his loadie friends to work for him.

Out of everything in this thread THIS POST is the one that's got me the most pissed off. Flat out lie about *ME* when I was still in high school. People like this that can't understand that we are two different, distinct, human beings are the sort of people that I just can't comprehend. The very reason that I left Florida a year before my father was somebody like this. Dude found my home address, came to my house looking for my father, and when I opened the front door he dragged me outside and beat the shit out of me in my own driveway because *my father* did who-knows-what. I packed my shit and moved 1000 miles away the very next day. It was several years before I spoke to him, and 10 before I decided to take over BFR.

This kind of thinking is dangerous and toxic. This kind of thinking has literally caused my blood to spill on my driveway. Its completely fucked up and needs to end.