What’s the Latest on LED Headlight Conversion? Options

[horizontally-opposed]

...but don't love the look of modern headlights in vintage cars.

You drivin' around during the day with your headlights up where others can see them...?

Or you don't like the pattern of light that others can see at night...?

Or it just bothers you knowing it's there even though no one can see it...?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Honestly, if it's the vintage-look thing, then we should all be driving around with the original seamed-beam incandescent lights. Because that's all they came with originally here in the USA.

None of the above, actually. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I like cars and details that look "period" but perform better—it's an affliction, I tell you, but we all have our ticks, don't we? Worse in this case, I actually like the way a 914 looks with its lights up (just as I do with, say, a Stratos or any number of cool old cars), so occasionally I put them up. Or I do so for safety during the day in some situations. Maybe it's 5-10% of the time (in truth I have no idea), but it's enough that I'd love to figure out a performance solution that retains "enough" 1970s to it. Trying to weigh out how much performance is lost against LEDs that don't worry about such silly concerns; the good news is the baseline with old H4s is very low indeed…hence the desire for better lights!

I have the VintageCar LEDs in my own car.
Night and day difference over sealed beams or H4 lights. I wish I had made the jump to LED headlights years ago. When the lights are up, they look like 70s sealed beams except MUCH MUCH BRIGTER.

If I was doing it again I WOULD NOT buy them.
I would go with any of the cheaper LED headlights made for jeeps.

The Vintage LEDs look really good when the headlights are up. But, as Mark said, ours are mostly down.
Also - and this is big for me - the Vintage LED bulbs stick out of the housing. They push against the headlight covers and were kind of a pain to adjust because of it. Also, due to the light vibrating off the headlight cover, I am concerned about them failing. Concerned enough that I have a set of Jeep LEDs sitting in my garage waiting for the more expensive ones to break.

On a Bug or a 911, I would say get the Vintage Car setup. for a 914, get something cheaper, its going to work better.

Zach

^ Just the kind of feedback I was hoping for—thank you for sharing your experience Zach! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Sounds like the Vintage LEDs were a massive jump over your old headlights. That's what I needed to know, and super helpful. Would love to know more about the fitment issues and not entirely clear on your concern about the vibrating off the covers? One of my H4's vibrates enough at speed that I know something is wrong...need to deal with that. Suspect it has to do with the adjustment of the damping "bolt" on that side of the car, but really need to take everything apart and rebush everything. Have a kit that's been sitting...

Hi Pete, @horizontally-opposed , Zach, @VaccaRabite , is hitting an issue not previously discussed which we had to deal with on my GE Nighthawks. They protrude further out of the housing then a stock sealed beam or H4 lens. That is why when you look at my car or see it in pictures it looks like the gap for the eyebrows and the headlight cover is just off a bit. Kent & Jim had to adjust the eyebrows to allow the headlights to open/close without hitting the eyebrows. The headlight sticks out maybe 3/16" to 1/4" further than stock.

But considering the GE's are 100% plug and play with no alterations or extra wiring, etc., I decided that was the way to go. Now, if someone makes an LED headlight that looks period correct and does not protrude and is plug and play....I would likely swap to that. Then we could re-adjust the eyebrows to fit 100% correctly. Not high on my list, but on the list.

I like the look of the Vintage lights a lot - I would go with the Hella H4 lens in the 5000 series and run them with the bright white color. Price wise they seem to be about the same as the GE's at today prices.

That leaves the truck light options- and there has got to be tons, like Zach said.

Keep us informed of how you proceed. I do love, love, love the light my Nighthawks put out. It's like the factory headlights were candles. The older I get the more light I need to see anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

^ Also really good info, Michael. Thanks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

I'll contact Vintage LEDs, as I wonder if one of the two upgrade lenses is "flatter" than the others, and if this might help? It's funny that they list not one but three lenses you can choose from—and one of them is an "H4" and says as much. I was going to skip it as it looks most likely to cause issues with the beam and adds the most $, but I wonder if it's as flat-faced as my H4s, and if that might help? Is it the convex nature of the lenses that is causing the problem, or the way these LED lights sit in the factory cradle?

[914forme]

Anything that is DOT Approved. Living in the Great State of Ohio out in the country I get stopped once a year for vehicle inspection, nothing like living in a top 2 state for motorist harassment.

One of the things they look at is DOT labels on all lights, so I run only DOT lighting.

Truck-Lites as mentioned are DOT. Fit perfect you only see them when I raise the headlights on the 914 or that Fait for that matter. And when you do it is either to clean them or use them. Or show the officer they are working for road side inspection.

Huge different over my Cibie Z beams I run in the 914-6. But Z beams are what the cool kids run, and I am not sure what they would look like with LED. If I need to drive at night I will take something with HIDs.

[Cairo94507]

Pete, @horizontally-opposed , here are pictures of the original headlights that were in my car showing the difference in the protrusion of the GE Nighthawks now in my car, (forgive the dirt- I drove it in the rain and still need to clean her.):

[Beeliner]

This discussion came up a while back and I purchased the GE Truck Lights...

I'm very happy and I was glad they were plug & play because that is pushing the envelope for me technologically. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Anyway, the 914s I bought new all had headlights that were pathetic. I survived only because all the streets around NYC have street lights. All of them. If there were dirt roads, they would have had street lights.

PS: if you were going to have sex in the car at night, just park under a tree and don't worry...

[Chris914n6]

^^ Good point. Modern Jeep is not standard size. The older Jeeps used standard sizes and that's where the confusion lies. But a Jeep 'spec' isn't what we are needing.

I put HID retrofit H4 bulbs in vintage Cibie Ecode housings and it's near perfect. But that is another Chinese rabbit hole for quality and in-spec bulbs.

[VaccaRabite]

My issue with the VintageCar LED is different then Cairo's issue with the nighthawks. His issue is with the front of the lens, and mine is with the backside (where the sun don't shine).



I did not have a pic of mine, so I used a pic off the VintageCar LED website. Their bulbs have the big heat sink as shown, and this sticks out about 2 inches from the back of the lens. You can make it fit in a 914 bucket. Many have including me. But for a 914 it does not fit RIGHT.

Then VintageCar lenses are fine. Great even. Fit right in, and look 100% period for the 70s (especially when you buy the "classic" lens, which I did for a small upcharge).

Vintage Car used a bulb and lens approach similar to an H4. The LED bulbs are long and stick well out behind the back of the headlight lens. So much so that the headlight and heat sink is pressed firmly against the sheet metal that makes up the headlight cover when the lights are down. In effect, when you adjust the lights, they are bearing not against the housing frame, but the back of the bulb heatshield is the bearing point against the sheet metal of the headlight cover.

On a car that does not have very shallow headlight housings (like a bug or 911, etc) these bulbs would not have a single issue. On a 914 with our shallow buckets, it is an issue. - at least with the lenses I bought.

Zach

[yellowporky]

I went with the simple version from Vintage Led because i did not want the large heat sink or the added converter box
Maybe not the best performer but it has to be better than stock.
They arrive today so i hope to install soon.
https://vintagecarleds.com/shop/7-inch/vcm3...-headlight-kit/

[Cairo94507]

Looking forward to hearing how those work out for you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[VaccaRabite]

I went with the simple version from Vintage Led because i did not want the large heat sink or the added converter box
Maybe not the best performer but it has to be better than stock.
They arrive today so i hope to install soon.
https://vintagecarleds.com/shop/7-inch/vcm3...-headlight-kit/

Oh that is interesting. I wish this had been an option when I bought mine last year. This should completely solve the issue that I have with my lights from this company.

Zach

[horizontally-opposed]

I went with the simple version from Vintage Led because i did not want the large heat sink or the added converter box
Maybe not the best performer but it has to be better than stock.
They arrive today so i hope to install soon.
https://vintagecarleds.com/shop/7-inch/vcm3...-headlight-kit/

Oh that is interesting. I wish this had been an option when I bought mine last year. This should completely solve the issue that I have with my lights from this company.

Zach

^ Wonder if just the bulbs can be updated?

Getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on a set with the Hella H4 lenses. Interesting to look at their before/after photos, assuming they're truly representative. This really seems like a no-brainer for less than $300. I will say my H4s are simply abysmal between being spoiled for so long by modern lighting and my aging peepers. This and Spoke's brake boards seem like two valuable safety upgrades for our old cars.

[Cairo94507]

@horizontally-opposed , Pete I absolutely agree. I also think a high-mount 3rd LED brake light needs to be part of the package. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Jamie]

I went with the simple version from Vintage Led because i did not want the large heat sink or the added converter box
Maybe not the best performer but it has to be better than stock.
They arrive today so i hope to install soon.
https://vintagecarleds.com/shop/7-inch/vcm3...-headlight-kit/

Oh that is interesting. I wish this had been an option when I bought mine last year. This should completely solve the issue that I have with my lights from this company.

Zach

Two Okteenerfests ago we had a demo from an LED dealer, and I later installed their sealed beam bulbs and they are great. Problem is I don't remember the name of the dealer, thought it might have been Vintage, but they don't show a sealed bulb on their site. Wish I could recall the name of the dealer because I'm very pleased with their product and price. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[yellowporky]

Just got them today
Hopefully get them in soon. Was happy to see that they were pre assembled

[horizontally-opposed]

@horizontally-opposed , Pete I absolutely agree. I also think a high-mount 3rd LED brake light needs to be part of the package. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Yep, having almost lost my 914 after being rear-ended in 1995 (AAA was delighted to tell me that they were totaling my car and would have a check for $3000 coming right up!) to a pretty light hit, I can't believe it's taken me this long to do something other than making sure the original lights/lighting was as good as it could be in terms of grounds, etc. Really looking forward to getting Spoke's LED brake lights in.

Have looked at 3rd brake lights and have seen some members come up with really well executed setups, but none so far that I'm willing to do—though some have had me close. Just don't want to look at them when they're not in use...but that's a rediculous bar, I know. Something about cake and eating it too... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[mepstein]

@horizontally-opposed , Pete I absolutely agree. I also think a high-mount 3rd LED brake light needs to be part of the package. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Yep, having almost lost my 914 after being rear-ended in 1995 (AAA was delighted to tell me that they were totaling my car and would have a check for $3000 coming right up!) to a pretty light hit, I can't believe it's taken me this long to do something other than making sure the original lights/lighting was as good as it could be in terms of grounds, etc. Really looking forward to getting Spoke's LED brake lights in.

Have looked at 3rd brake lights and have seen some members come up with really well executed setups, but none so far that I'm willing to do—though some have had me close. Just don't want to look at them when they're not in use...but that's a rediculous bar, I know. Something about cake and eating it too... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Held on with small magnets and a quick release connector.
Motorcycle helmets are being made with a wireless Bluetooth 3rd brake light on the back. Maybe Jerry/Spoke could make one for our cars.

[Krieger]

@horizontally-opposed , Pete I absolutely agree. I also think a high-mount 3rd LED brake light needs to be part of the package. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Yep, having almost lost my 914 after being rear-ended in 1995 (AAA was delighted to tell me that they were totaling my car and would have a check for $3000 coming right up!) to a pretty light hit, I can't believe it's taken me this long to do something other than making sure the original lights/lighting was as good as it could be in terms of grounds, etc. Really looking forward to getting Spoke's LED brake lights in.

Have looked at 3rd brake lights and have seen some members come up with really well executed setups, but none so far that I'm willing to do—though some have had me close. Just don't want to look at them when they're not in use...but that's a rediculous bar, I know. Something about cake and eating it too... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I am right there with you on the headlights @horizontally-opposed . In April I finally finished my 75 when I installed my GE Nighthawks this past April!

[Montreal914]

@horizontally-opposed , Pete I absolutely agree. I also think a high-mount 3rd LED brake light needs to be part of the package. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Yep, having almost lost my 914 after being rear-ended in 1995 (AAA was delighted to tell me that they were totaling my car and would have a check for $3000 coming right up!) to a pretty light hit, I can't believe it's taken me this long to do something other than making sure the original lights/lighting was as good as it could be in terms of grounds, etc. Really looking forward to getting Spoke's LED brake lights in.

Have looked at 3rd brake lights and have seen some members come up with really well executed setups, but none so far that I'm willing to do—though some have had me close. Just don't want to look at them when they're not in use...but that's a rediculous bar, I know. Something about cake and eating it too... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I too am not into anything that would show and not be "period correct". That being said the third brake light is a must! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I have used an LED package from a Honda 90's? trunk rear wing. These are slim and hide well under the Targa bar and doesn't show in the rear view mirror. I used VHB double face tape about 8 years ago and it hasn't moved. Wires are hidden in the trim. Being slightly recessed from the aluminum rear trim, it is very subtle but very visible when I hit the brakes.

[bbrock]

I too am not into anything that would show and not be "period correct". That being said the third brake light is a must! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I have used an LED package from a Honda 90's? trunk rear wing. These are slim and hide well under the Targa bar and doesn't show in the rear view mirror. I used VHB double face tape about 8 years ago and it hasn't moved. Wires are hidden in the trim. Being slightly recessed from the aluminum rear trim, it is very subtle but very visible when I hit the brakes.

I went a similar route using a flexible light bar for motorcycles. Details are on my build thread here: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=2847290

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-20845-1598835156.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-20845-1598835362.jpg)

[horizontally-opposed]

^ Two examples of the ones that were really well done, and almost have me there.

Part of what makes this "garage" so great is not just the exchange of ideas but the ongoing exchange of ideas, and the prompts that make you reconsider something you might have come to "no solution" on—and maybe from a different angle, with a different picture/view, that prompts a thought you didn't have back then. Looking at these pics, I am reminded of what I viewed as the best-case fixes, and a no-brainer for safety/cheap insurance, but still a compromise in an area that matters to me with old cars: period correctness. And, looking at these pics, I wonder if I can somehow get the back pad "just higher enough" between my headrests to conceal one of those ultra-thin LED strips so it is seen through the rear window. Not sure I am communicating the idea well, but I'll be fiddling with my 914's interior this weekend—hopefully—and do some scheming. Probably (well) outside my skillset to do it "invisibly" (it may require an upholsterer who can mod the backpad), but will be fun to look at/think about.

Meantime, I am thankful for this thread, as it got me over the hump on two safety upgrades I now view as no-brainers:

1. LED headlights (will wait to see how yellowporky's install goes)
2. Spoke's LED brake boards

[Mikey914]

We have a new brake light product that another member has made that we will be rolling out in the next week. It's really cool and super easy to install. I think you all will like it.
Mark