Eric's Six Conversion, chassis work has finally commenced. Options

[Detroit]

Greetings all...

As the title suggests, I'm undertaking a six cylinder heart transplant on my four cylinder '74 914. I've always wanted to build a hot rod of some sort, and a 3.X 914 seems a pretty solid choice. I just hope the patient and donor organ both survive the surgery...

The motor is a 3.0L out of an '82 SC. It needs rebuilding. I'm going to start a separate thread for that over on the Pelican forum in the engine rebuilding section, because I'm going to need lot's of advice. I realize that there are plenty of peops here who've built sixes, but as that forum is dedicated purely to the task it makes sense to me to start the thread there. I'll paste a link for anyone interested once I've got it started. It's not going to be some crazy race motor. I just want a good reliable street engine. I'm not a hundred percent sure what I'm going to do with the chassis at this point, but I have plenty of time to think about it. I work slow.

The overall plan is to rebuild the motor, and then get it running on a start cart, which I've already started to cobble up. At that point I'll pull the four cylinder, do any chassis mods, and stick in the new engine. It all sounds so simple when I type it... Stupid brain.

I've already torn the engine down to the long block, but have paused to get a few things around the garage cleared up. There will be additional pauses along the way. I've got a zillion things to do around here... I'm pretty determined to get this done though, so hopefully said pauses will be brief.

I will do my best to keep everyone updated along the way. And of course supply plenty of pictures. Here's a few to start.

EDIT - Here's a link to the engine build thread:
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-...3-0l-build.html

The car.


The six.


The start cart (and mock up engine and trans).

[914Sixer]

Way cool. Engine cart is a excellent start. Great place to keep engine, trans stored. Can't get better than mobile and out of the way.

[Superhawk996]

Can’t wait to see this come together
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[Root_Werks]

Look how nice that looks! My 914-6 conversion looks like crud compared to that. That looks like a fun 914-6.

[mb911]

Looks great.. a better start then mine was

[Detroit]

Thank, fellas. And, Phil, consider this start cart yours when the time comes. It wouldn't exist without your donor trans case. Honestly, getting this done before you might need it is kind of my goal. I need a little outside pressure as additional motivation.

I made a bit of a meal with the back end of it. Functionally, it'll be perfectly adequate. It's just not as elegant as I'd like. I figure I'll be looking at some delays when bits of the 3.0L are sent out for reconditioning. I'll use those delays to get back on the cart mounting the oil tank, etc.

[Detroit]

Ben, that's your muffler hanging off the back of it. Your heat exchangers are hanging on the wall. I wanted to get those on there too, but it (I only tried one) wouldn't go on. There's a bit of flash on the flanges from when they were ground flat, so I'm assuming that's the cause. That said, I bought the larger heat exchangers. Will they fit the 2.0 on my cart, or is the stud spacing different?

[CptTripps]

Looks like you're off to a great start. Can't wait to see what you do with it. That's one hell of a cart!

[Dion]

What a fantastic combo. Good luck. You look to have a solid start.

[Mark Henry]

Good start. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

You might like to look at my conversion thread below, similar to yours, I started with a disassembled '79 SC core and a 1974 1.8 914.
It's never done...now I'm collecting parts to go aftermarket FI. Nothing against carbs, except for being a bit thirsty they run beyond perfect, but I have another project that I hope to use the carbs and TP dizzy for.


http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=229913

[gereed75]

Not Ben, but I will chime in with my experience- the header/ heat exchangers are a very finicky fit. They take some finessing. Although the stud pattern on the aircooled motors of this era are the same, There can be subtle variations in the actual spacing since the heads bolt up to the engine assembly individually. And they can move around a bit as the engine heat cycles through normal use. Include that variation with the tolerance variation that is inevitable even in very well built header flanges such as Ben’s, and any slightly bent or stripped and repaired studs, and the angles that occur as you mate the two, and how you hold your mouth etc etc and it can be tricky.

I would not bother trying to fit headers to any motor than the one they are intended to be used on without good reason.

[mb911]

Ben, that's your muffler hanging off the back of it. Your heat exchangers are hanging on the wall. I wanted to get those on there too, but it (I only tried one) wouldn't go on. There's a bit of flash on the flanges from when they were ground flat, so I'm assuming that's the cause. That said, I bought the larger heat exchangers. Will they fit the 2.0 on my cart, or is the stud spacing different?

Absolutely they will fit. You may have to enlarge the holes for the studs. The heat exchangers will move. Just did it on my car this weekend. Stainless is very gummy until heat cycled. Meaning they move around a bunch until bolted up and heat cycled.

[Cairo94507]

Excellent project and a great starting point. You will love your 3.0 motor. Do you plan to go with Webers? F.I.? I think the 3.0 is one of the most popular engines in these conversions and they run great regardless of carbs or F.I. (personally, even though the carbs look so perfect, I would go with an F.I. system of some type if you plan to drive it regularly. No gas smell, better mileage and almost no maintenance.)

Regardless of your direction, hit all of the main issues that pop up on 6 engines in our cars and you will just love your car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Detroit]

Absolutely they will fit. You may have to enlarge the holes for the studs. The heat exchangers will move. Just did it on my car this weekend. Stainless is very gummy until heat cycled. Meaning they move around a bunch until bolted up and heat cycled.
[/quote]

Cool. Thanks. I figured that was likely the case. I've never had a header go on anything without a touch of finessing, so I wasn't stressed about it. And there's no actual need to put them on the start cart at this point. I just though it would look cool...

[mepstein]

[quote name='Detroit' date='Mar 23 2021, 09:51 AM' post='2901847']
Absolutely they will fit. You may have to enlarge the holes for the studs. The heat exchangers will move. Just did it on my car this weekend. Stainless is very gummy until heat cycled. Meaning they move around a bunch until bolted up and heat cycled.
[/quote]

Cool. Thanks. I figured that was likely the case. I've never had a header go on anything without a touch of finessing, so I wasn't stressed about it. And there's no actual need to put them on the start cart at this point. I just though it would look cool...
[/quote]
There is less wiggle room with the heat exchangers vs plain headers.

[roblav1]

On heat exchangers, it's easier if you can attach them before cranking down on the head studs.
JE makes nice pistons... use min 9.5:1. Might get away with 10:1 if your cams are big enough. My cams are the same Mark Henry has.

[Detroit]

Thanks for all the input.

I'm not at all worried about the heat exchanger fitment. I did get the one side on the 3.0L on the engine stand. Once the (very small amount of) flash is cleaned up. I've no doubt they'll slide on easily enough.

The fuel system at this point is a question mark. I'm not going to use the CIS. I might have if the motor didn't need rebuilding, but if I'm going this far, I'm going to change the cams. And honestly, the CIS just doesn't look the part. EFI would be brilliant, but this is not a cost-no-object build. That leaves carbs. I have two sets of Zeniths that came with the original -6 engine currently in the start cart. They are my least expensive option by a long shot. That said, I know little about them at this point, and I don't intend to ruin this build by a poor choice in fuel delivery.

[Mark Henry]

Thanks for all the input.

I'm not at all worried about the heat exchanger fitment. I did get the one side on the 3.0L on the engine stand. Once the (very small amount of) flash is cleaned up. I've no doubt they'll slide on easily enough.

The fuel system at this point is a question mark. I'm not going to use the CIS. I might have if the motor didn't need rebuilding, but if I'm going this far, I'm going to change the cams. And honestly, the CIS just doesn't look the part. EFI would be brilliant, but this is not a cost-no-object build. That leaves carbs. I have two sets of Zeniths that came with the original -6 engine currently in the start cart. They are my least expensive option by a long shot. That said, I know little about them at this point, and I don't intend to ruin this build by a poor choice in fuel delivery.

Zeniths are okay, they just they have little if any aftermarket support. Most stick to stock, stock modified, Webers, PMO's, and then aftermarket EFI and ITB's.

[Detroit]

I haven't gotten anything else done on the start, but I did start tearing down the motor. I started a thread over on Pelican for the engine rebuild phase of the project:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-...3-0l-build.html

Apart from that I also welded up and installed the framework for a bar outside my kitchen. Unfortunately, I am going to have to tackle some home projects along the way. That said, I'm quite pleased with getting the bar made... It'll get some use.

[Detroit]

Well, it's about time I drag this thread out of mothballs...

The motor is running (no videos yet). It's not running great at this point, which I'm pretty sure is down to fueling. I've been hesitant to tackle it with all the unseasonably warm weather we've had, because the last time I ran it (to break in the cams) one of my bloody neighbors called the police... Stay tuned.

I'm confident enough that I'll get the motor running properly, however, that I've commenced work on the car. The motor is out, and I've started disassembly of the suspension. I want to get as much stripped off and cleaned as I'm able prior to getting the motor mount welded in.

The overall plan is to refurbish the suspension and brakes, as well as the pedal box. Not to mention all the details associated with the actual engine swap. As to the forementioned suspension, I'll be doing a bit of "upgrading". For starters, I'll be replacing the CV's, axle flanges, etc. with 911 hardware. To that end I acquired a complete 911 SC suspension, which brings me to my first question...

Do 911 and 914 torsion bars have the same spline count? One of my A-arms is bent, so I'd like to use the 911 components. That said, I don't want to go to heavier torsion bars (which I presume 911 variants are).

Additionally, I'll be adding factory sway bars, and uprating the brakes with S calipers on the front. I'm not sure what to do with the rears at this point, so please chime in if you've tread this path before. I have, of course, read all of Eric Shea's 5-lug conversion threads (multiple times). I don't think I'm totally insane with this plan, but I'm still a little uncertain as to the compatibility of all the hardware in my possession.

Here are a few pics of where I'm at in the process. One thing I was particularly delighted about upon disassembly is the condition of the rocker panels. They're sound. I knew that it's a solid car, but had never had the covers off.