Early 1970 914 original barn find..., Going to see it Friday, owner finally wants to sell it... Options

[oakdalecurtis]

Ok Brain Trust! I am going with another 914 owner to Sonora, Ca this Friday to look at a 1970 barn find. This 2nd owner said the car has been in his barn for 20 years, that it ran when went in, and has been rolled about but never started over the years. VIN # is 4702902635, which I believe would make it the 2,635th 914 built in the first year of production, 1970. The odometer says a little over 60K miles. We will check the engine number, but have no reason to believe it is not all original. He says that other than the obvious cosmetic issues outside, there is no bondo that he could find (magnet checked) and no chassis rust (I know, we've all heard that before. We'll look Friday as best we can, hell hole, trunks, etc, but won't be able to remove the rockers).
Question: IF we can roll the car, AND the brakes are not seized, AND the engine rotates in gear, AND I bring a battery and fire extinguisher, would it be ok to hook up the battery, turn the ignition just to the "on" position and see if the gauges come to life? IF they do and that checks out positively, what about trying to start it? I know the fuel is probably crap, and the fuel lines COULD leak, but if it all seems good up to that point, what about a test start up?
I will try to find the engine number on the top of the engine. Besides lots of photos and checking the obvious areas for rust, what else might we want to know about?
It looks like it has the original standard VW steelie wheels and caps, correct for these early 914's.
Shouldn't it have a 1.7 label on the back along with the 914 label?
I will ask him for all records that he has also.
I convinced the owner to let the car go to someone who wants a project car. I told him I would be willing to post all photos and info that I get there on this site and see if any members here would like to BAT and get his project car. My GUESS at this point, with this info, is I would recommend a price around $3500.
Any further thoughts or comments before my Friday visit? Think I'm close on a price recommendation, with what we know so far?

[Front yard mechanic]

Looks like a 2000 dollar car add 25.00 for the trunk key

[Superhawk996]

what about trying to start it? I know the fuel is probably crap, and the fuel lines COULD leak, but if it all seems good up to that point, what about a test start up?

Trying to start an engine that has been sitting for 20 years is a bad plan.

1) Horizontal boxer engines don't store well. Usually end up with corrosion and pitting on bottom of the cylinders.

2) At a bare minimum you want to pre-treat cylinders with oil and/or penetrating oil before a 1st start to avoid breaking rings. Oil in the crank is probably garbage and won't do any favors for bearings even if it tried to start. Clutch probably has a 50/50 chance of being stuck to the flywheel. Whole host of other "what if" or "could" scenarios very few of which are in your favor to have it just simply start.

3) Even if it does start the engine still probably run very rough and needs to be rebuilt due to #1 or simply that it got put in "storage" because it wasn't running right to start with.

4) You're just going to suck in bad fuel and/or rust from the tank making matters worse for injectors and/or carbs.

5) If it does sputter or even cough, the seller now thinks its worth $1000 more even though it still likely needs a complete engine rebuild.

It is what it is. May be a nice car for restoration but as it sits a poorly running engine means very little to actual value of the car.

[Shivers]

My non-appearance group 1972 does not have a 1.7 badge either. don't put a battery in it. Barns have rodents, so until the electrical system can be checked for chewed wired and possible shorts, I'd leave that be. Also as stated above, don't start it.

[mlindner]

As said above...do not try to start. Every thing is about how much rust. Take a mirror and bright lite and look everywhere, you will be able to see some of the rocker, jack points/donuts, rear trunk underside above muffler, bottom of doors. If his ends up being a very clean body, don't worry about the rest. Buy It. Best, Mark

[mepstein]

Looks like a 2000 dollar car add 25.00 for the trunk key

I’m with you.

[SirAndy]

Trying to start an engine that has been sitting for 20 years is a bad plan.

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About the worst thing you could possible do to that engine. In fact, don't even try to "turn it over".
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don't put a battery in it. Barns have rodents, so until the electrical system can be checked for chewed wired and possible shorts

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And also no on the battery. One short somewhere and your 50 years old wiring harness will go up in smoke. Why risk that?
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[oakdalecurtis]

And that's why I go to the Brain Trust! Ok, won't try to start it or even put a battery in to check electrical, bad plan. I don't think I'll even try to move the engine in gear, breaking rings isn't cool.
Does everyone agree with Front Yard Mechanic, that, based on what you see and know at this stage, it's only worth 2k? That seems a little low to me.....
Btw, I do not have the room or motivation to do a resto like this. I am only going to post it for sale online here for him if he decides to let it go. Anybody interested so far? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
ty

[KELTY360]

Interesting find. The displacement numbers weren’t added til ‘73 when the 2.0/4 was added to the product line. The black bumpers are unusual for a ‘70 because early non-appearance group bumpers were painted body color.

[arbitrary]

Can’t be much harm in connecting a battery through something like a 20A fuse? That said not sure what turning the key to see if the instruments come alive will really tell you.

[SirAndy]

Does everyone agree with Front Yard Mechanic, that, based on what you see and know at this stage, it's only worth 2k?

That early rear bumper is 1k alone, if restored.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[mepstein]

Does everyone agree with Front Yard Mechanic, that, based on what you see and know at this stage, it's only worth 2k?

That early rear bumper is 1k alone, if restored.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

I did restore & re chrome an early rear bumper. Chrome cost $450 and shipping 2x was $150. Sold for 1k.
There is a lot of good stuff in an early car but a lot of time, work & space to part and sell.

[oakdalecurtis]

That early rear bumper is 1k alone, if restored.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

I did restore & re chrome an early rear bumper. Chrome cost $450 and shipping 2x was $150. Sold for 1k.
There is a lot of good stuff in an early car but a lot of time, work & space to part and sell.

I realize that there are a lot of unknowns, but we also do know a lot about this ride. I see here that just certain parts alone have a significant value. If the car is what we see, engine is salvageable, no significant structural rust, etc, would some of you like to chime in on what price that I might suggest to the owner to post it at in this forum? Help me out, take a reasonable stab.....

[KELTY360]

Does everyone agree with Front Yard Mechanic, that, based on what you see and know at this stage, it's only worth 2k?

That early rear bumper is 1k alone, if restored.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

I did restore & re chrome an early rear bumper. Chrome cost $450 and shipping 2x was $150. Sold for 1k.
There is a lot of good stuff in an early car but a lot of time, work & space to part and sell.

If the description holds, it would be a pity to part out this early car. Contrary to current hysteria, the world doesn’t revolve around -6’s.

[wonkipop]

do not attempt to start the car in situ.
since you are not buying it - simply informing of its existence, you will highly likely ruin the car/engine for someone who wants it. esp so if that engine is intact and original.

don't do anything to it. its worth more if you don't mess with it.

hard to know from those photos, but car looks like its fairly unmolested.

body looks like someone had a go at shaving warts and removing usual dents,
moon dent in rear boot lid, supermarket battle damage down sides.

all 914s have rust.

i think value at 2K perhaps a little unkind to the car.
its somewhere around what you suggest at 3.5 if its a sound car?
but hard to know from photos you have shown.
advertise it, with proper documentation - see what market will bring.
i agree with mr.KELTY360.

there are some interesting things about it.
it has body colored trim to targa bar, looks white or have trims been removed?
could be an owner mod (part of uncompleted wart shaving works).
or its one of those unusual very early cars where the trim on the targa bar was body colored. the black painted rims are also something that very early cars had.
the black bumpers throw that off a bit, because they ought to be white?
its a bit ambiguous as to just how original it is.

[oakdalecurtis]

do not attempt to start the car in situ.
since you are not buying it - simply informing of its existence, you will highly likely ruin the car/engine for someone who wants it. esp so if that engine is intact and original.

don't do anything to it. its worth more if you don't mess with it.

hard to know from those photos, but car looks like its fairly unmolested.

body looks like someone had a go at shaving warts and removing usual dents,
moon dent in rear boot lid, supermarket battle damage down sides.

all 914s have rust.

i think value at 2K perhaps a little unkind to the car.
its somewhere around what you suggest at 3.5 if its a sound car?
but hard to know from photos you have shown.
advertise it, with proper documentation - see what market will bring.
i agree with mr.KELTY360.

there are some interesting things about it.
it has body colored trim to targa bar, looks white or have trims been removed?
could be an owner mod (part of uncompleted wart shaving works).
or its one of those unusual very early cars where the trim on the targa bar was body colored. the black painted rims are also something that very early cars had.
the black bumpers throw that off a bit, because they ought to be white?
its a bit ambiguous as to just how original it is.

thanks wonkipop, great comments!
When I go look at it Friday, I will pay special attention to originality of the sail and targa paint. Good catch on the warts shaved off, suggests some body work has been done. The VIN suggest to me that this is only the 2,635th car off the line, so the black rims may fit in the "early cars" category. And so far, I agree with you, about $3,500 in todays market, if all checks out on the car, seems about right....

[ClayPerrine]

Check the numbers on the steering wheel. Lots of 70 914s have the one that is the same as the 911 RSR wheel, and those go for big money.

If it is cheap enough, I would buy it and get it running again.

Clay

[mepstein]

Check the numbers on the steering wheel. Lots of 70 914s have the one that is the same as the 911 RSR wheel, and those go for big money.

If it is cheap enough, I would buy it and get it running again.

Clay

Early 914-4 cars have a flat Porsche hub that ends in "10". They do usually go for more than later wheels but they are not 914-6, RS or RSR wheels. Very similar but not the same.

[oakdalecurtis]

Check the numbers on the steering wheel. Lots of 70 914s have the one that is the same as the 911 RSR wheel, and those go for big money.

If it is cheap enough, I would buy it and get it running again.

Clay

Clay and/or Mep, where are the numbers to be found on the steering wheel??? And I presume that when you refer to a "flat porsche hub" that you are referring to the center of the steering wheel?

[mepstein]

Check the numbers on the steering wheel. Lots of 70 914s have the one that is the same as the 911 RSR wheel, and those go for big money.

If it is cheap enough, I would buy it and get it running again.

Clay

Clay and/or Mep, where are the numbers to be found on the steering wheel??? And I presume that when you refer to a "flat porsche hub" that you are referring to the center of the steering wheel?

Numbers and dates are on the front of the hub. Behind the horn pad.
An early four would be:
914.347.804.10 - hard rubber wheel
914.347.805.10 - leather covered wheel

‘72 on went to a VW dimension hub and end in “11”. Same spline count but use a different rear plastic hub spacer and aren’t a perfect fit if you switch early for late or late for early. However the fit is acceptable.