ADDED 924 Turbo to stable!, New Restoration Project Options

[Gatornapper]

Any 924 Turbo owners here, I could use your help.

Cannot get the timing belt cover off - all unbolted, loose, cannot get out. Also a major belt clearance problem between intake manifold beneath fuel distributor and the water pump - less that thickness of water pump belt.

See here for my questions:

https://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?p=407984#407984

TIA,

GN

[mb911]

I seem to remember my dad taking the turbo off the car for the timing belt job. it is pretty in depth.

[Gatornapper]

Ben -

ARGHHHHH!!! I hope not! Taking fuel distributor off now to move it an inch or two forward - hoping that may do it........

Thanks.

GN

I seem to remember my dad taking the turbo off the car for the timing belt job. it is pretty in depth.

[infraredcalvin]

Funny, all this 924 talk and look what I found I’m my bag of stuff that came with my -6…





Anybody have a Weissach Ed?

[JamesM]

Any 924 Turbo owners here, I could use your help.

Cannot get the timing belt cover off - all unbolted, loose, cannot get out. Also a major belt clearance problem between intake manifold beneath fuel distributor and the water pump - less that thickness of water pump belt.

See here for my questions:

https://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?p=407984#407984

TIA,

GN

Its been a couple years since I did mine but i remember it being more difficult than you would expect to get that stupid cover off, probably why most pictures of peoples cars they are not reinstalled. I don't remember the exact process but more has to come out than you would think. Pretty sure the turbo charge tube has to come off, but for sure the turbo itself does not (which is good as I hear pulling the turbo is so difficult that a lot of people just pull the motor, but haven't attempted it myself yet)

[Gatornapper]

Ok, Calvin.

I can match those: The "Introductory Model" - only 600 made, mine #201 -

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/hosting.photobucket.com-21449-1637360319.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/hosting.photobucket.com-21449-1637360319.2.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/hosting.photobucket.com-21449-1637360319.3.jpg)

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GN

Funny, all this 924 talk and look what I found I’m my bag of stuff that came with my -6…


Anybody have a Weissach Ed?

[Gatornapper]

I you are thinking of getting a 924 Turbo, be prepared for finding engine work very difficult. The turbo and its associated parts are so jammed in the engine bay that working on anything up there is a BEAR.

NOT your normal everyday wrenching.......you'll be spending a lot of time trying to figure out how to get to parts, and how to remove 10 parts to get to the one you have to work on.

The 914 was a joy by comparison.

GN

[windforfun]

Didn't the 944 use a piston counterbalancing design that was licensed from Mitsubishi (IIRC).

[Gatornapper]

Correct. They hated doing that but much less expensive than developing their own. Somewhere I read it was like $11/car.

GN

Didn't the 944 use a piston counterbalancing design that was licensed from Mitsubishi (IIRC).

[Gatornapper]

Been a while since my last post on my progress on the 924T, or 931 ask known by owners.

Golly - where to start?

New timing belt, idler pulley, water pump, coolant, K&N air filter, spark plugs (wires, dizzy cap & rotor later - look good for now).

Removing timing belt cover a nightmare, almost impossible, on Turbo 924's. Several day job. Had to bend parts of it to get it off - then took snips to cover and cut off offending sections.

Some PO had converted fog light switch to secret kill switch killing power to fuel pump. Eliminated that wiring. When I find some original fog lights I'll run them as DRL's w/LEDs as on my 914.

Adjusted valves - another nightmare - far too complex to explain here - like nothing I've ever seen. Very difficult. A tiny 3mm allen screw in cam follower that's very difficult has to be rotated 360 deg. to change lash by .002" Almost impossible with Allen "L" wrench - but doable with difficulty. Surprising lack of detail on web and in Haynes manual.

All new rear brake assemblies, bled and adjusted - yes, they are drum.

New clutch master and slave cylinders, bled and working fine - first time I've had clutch since I picked up the car. Bolts on master cylinder impossible to reach. Starter had to come off to replace the slave. 2 - 19mm bolts holding starter in (original I think) took 100 ft.lbs. to break loose and then 50 ft.lbs. to turn for all but last threads. All renewed now.

Fuel system completely flushed & clean, all systems looking good. New fuel pump, in-tank filter replacing original in-tank fuel pump, line hoses, filter, and rebuilt fuel tank sending unit.

Injectors clogged. Soaked in Berryman's Chem Dip Carb cleaner for hour, then in ultrasonic cleaner with no success. Finally put the Berryman's in the ultrasonic cleaner and ran each injector for an hour and got them unclogged.

BUT, spray pattern on 3 out of 4 was not good, so had to order 4 new ones from Pelican. $176 ea. from Porsche, got them for $61 ea. So, all new fuel injectors. They are mechanical, not electrical. New to me.

Fixed a lot of small things like rear lights - corrosion on galvanized metal panels holding all lamps prevented many from working - now fixed.

New rear hatch strut. Lots off missing small parts replaced thanks to both Pelican and Auto Atlanta.

I'm probably missing something, but this is most of it. Been getting help from 3 guys on 924board.org, one in Sweden who provided me with all factory shop manuals in English in PDF format. Yay. But while the Germans have great engineering, the way they organize their info is plain weird - and alien.

Still very pleased with condition of this car - it is excellent and I can't wait to drive it. Hope to get engine running this week. Will try to add pics later.

Will let you all know.

GN

[JamesM]

New timing belt, idler pulley, water pump, coolant, K&N air filter, spark plugs (wires, dizzy cap & rotor later - look good for now).

So you probably are not going to be happy to here this but...

There are a number of rubber vacuum elbows that are probably going to need to be replaced as vacuum leaks are a huge issue with these cars running properly.

Most of them are NLA now so you will need to get creative.

Worse though is that there is one that come offs the turbo and if I recall was somewhat blocked by the water pump/easier with the water pump out.

Don't worry though, the timing belt and water pump come off far easier the second time... ask me how i know.

[Gatornapper]

James -

Thank you. I know how you know. Is not experience the best teacher?

I was forewarned about the vacuum hoses in advance, but mine look so good I decided to take the risk on them. A guy on the 924 forum sourced a place that has silicone hoses that can replace the originals. Flexible enough to handle most of the original tight bends.

Yes, doing most complex things a 2nd time takes half the time, the 3rd time a 1/4, and so on.

AND I intentionally left OFF the timing belt cover for the very reason you mentioned. And that is half the battle there with the belt.

Keep the suggestions coming James - I'm one who appreciates them.

And I'll keep it posted here how it goes with the vacuum hoses........

GN

New timing belt, idler pulley, water pump, coolant, K&N air filter, spark plugs (wires, dizzy cap & rotor later - look good for now).

So you probably are not going to be happy to here this but...

There are a number of rubber vacuum elbows that are probably going to need to be replaced as vacuum leaks are a huge issue with these cars running properly.

Most of them are NLA now so you will need to get creative.

Worse though is that there is one that come offs the turbo and if I recall was somewhat blocked by the water pump/easier with the water pump out.

Don't worry though, the timing belt and water pump come off far easier the second time... ask me how i know.

[Gatornapper]

Few pics for Post #110:

Camshaft with followers underneath:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/hosting.photobucket.com-21449-1639952816.1.jpeg)

Follower beneath cam above valve - hole in follower is end of 3mm Allen screw that indicates which thickness it is. To access Allen end, you have to rotate follower 180 deg. and insert Allen wrench in opposite end. This pic is rotated 180 deg. from above pic.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/hosting.photobucket.com-21449-1639952816.2.jpeg)

And here is the Allen screw. Adjusted, flat side is always down, face on the end of the valve. Each rotation of screw changes thickness, and thus lash, .002". Screw IN (CW) for less lash, OUT (CCW) for more lash. Kind of hard to grasp until you see it. Screw is about 1" long:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/hosting.photobucket.com-21449-1639952817.3.png)

And here is a pic of how the Allen wrench fits in the follower. I used an "L" wrench, not the one in the pic.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/hosting.photobucket.com-21449-1639952817.4.JPG)

You can see you can only rotate the Allen wrench one face at a time (1/6th turn, 60 deg.). That makes an adjustment of .002" divided by 6.

914 valve adjustment is tight - but so much easier.

GN

[Gatornapper]

[/u]JUST POSSIBLY THE BIGGEST AND MOST WONDERFUL SURPRISE OF MY LIFE!

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Friday through Sunday 931 would start but not run for more than a few seconds. Yesterday it would not start at all. Put my frustration level at a 12 on a 10-pt. scale.

Today about noon I double-checked some things, and thought, well, might as well try one more time.

Not only did the engine start immediately, I was able - barely - to keep it limping along pumping the accel pedal furiously. I thought, oh! If I could just keep it running! Well, I did. Or it did. BARELY running, missing like crazy, revs up, almost to zero, up, zero and so on.

BUT I KEPT IT RUNNING FOR 3 or 4 minutes and SHAZAM!!! all of a sudden the engine hits some smooth spots! Intermittent, but very noticeable and significant! So I just kept it running....and all of a sudden, after 5 to 7 minutes the engine begins running smoothly as I keep it about 2,000 RPM.

Surely if I let it drop to idle, it will die. NO! I let it drop to idle and the engine PURRS!

THE LONGER I RAN IT, THE BETTER IT RAN! But I figured what it needs now is 2 cans of Seafoam. Whatever was clogging up the CIS was being broken free and the system getting cleansed. Do I dare take it on road??????? Why not?

I called my insurance company, added the car, threw an Antique tag on the back and called my Porsche friend Rick who came right over. (Rick found the 931 for me, a Porsche genius, has 356 replica, Concours '72 914, almost like-new '85 944 and '04 911.)

Totally amazed, we drove out on the highway with the engine running like new! So we put it through its paces, and it is running flawlessly! EVERYTHING IS WORKING! Temp stayed perfect, fans working. I had already gotten all the lights working. Tranny and suspension are great! Car is TIGHT!!! It's almost like a new car - other than the hatch rattle in the back.

So Rick and I spent a good 30-40 minutes thrashing the 931, and it is doing all things well! Well, the steering is quite an effort as I'm used to my 914. But the Turbo kicks in nicely, smoothly, and sweetly adds its power!

From a long history of working on cars, trucks, motorcycles, I thought it would be months before I'd get the 931 to where it is today.

I consider it a miracle.

Now just can't wait to see what some new tires and Bilsteins will do for the car!

I could not be a happier 931 owner!

GN

[914Sixer]

Good for you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[JamesM]

Not sure if i asked/mentioned that you will probably want to clean the fuel distributor/specifically the metal plunger fuel meter thingy really well.

Mine did the same thing when i first brought it back to life, the fuel meter rod was seized in its bore. Lots of soaking in cleaners and manually manipulating the shaft until it smoothly fell out of the bore took care of most of the issues.

If the fuel distributor was gummed up chances are your fuel accumulator may be shot as well. Replacing that made a HUGE difference for me in starting. Mine starts/restarts on the first compression stroke pretty much every time now. Its probably worth removing and inspecting/cleaning up the WUR as well as the fuel varnish is going to be everywhere in the system. Seafoam/cleaners in the fuel may be enough to take care of that though and its a little more difficult to get to, so maybe take a wait and see approach there.


For being the "Low end" Porsche it is surprising how tight and solid 931s feel when coming from a 914. I describe my 80 as feeling like a cross between a 914 and a 951. Still has the rawness of a 914 with the dog leg 931 and no power steering, but the comfort of a 944... and then BOOST!!!

Seriously if your car doesn't already have one look at getting a manual boost controller. Just upping the turbo pressure a couple PSI over stock really transforms the car. Just maybe not on a hot day.

[Gatornapper]

James -

From all my research I was fully prepared to do just what you described.

But it is not needed. I cannot imagine the engine running better than it does. Like new. Whatever was gumming up the CIS system - and I think the metal rod/plunger was a major part - is now completely cleared up. I'm glad - from all I read, I did not want to touch mine. Now I don't need to. Thankfully, fuel accumulator seems fine. Getting almost 1 liter flow in 30 seconds - 750ml is minimum.

Yes, you describe the car quite accurately. In every detail! Like the cross between 914 and 951.

Already picked out a nice manual boost controller a few weeks ago, made in Canada. On my list....OR.......

One expert said taking out catalyst alone raises boost significantly and safely due to loss of back pressure....now the factory boost will result in more HP. Problem is all exhaust is ONE PIECE STAINLESS STEEL. I can weld, but not stainless. Leaning that way if I can find someone who welds stainless.

Keep the suggestions coming - love hearing from those who have "gone before me" on this 931 journey.

Now it will be a battle over whether I drive the 931 or 914......

GN

Not sure if i asked/mentioned that you will probably want to clean the fuel distributor/specifically the metal plunger fuel meter thingy really well.

Mine did the same thing when i first brought it back to life, the fuel meter rod was seized in its bore. Lots of soaking in cleaners and manually manipulating the shaft until it smoothly fell out of the bore took care of most of the issues.

If the fuel distributor was gummed up chances are your fuel accumulator may be shot as well. Replacing that made a HUGE difference for me in starting. Mine starts/restarts on the first compression stroke pretty much every time now. Its probably worth removing and inspecting/cleaning up the WUR as well as the fuel varnish is going to be everywhere in the system. Seafoam/cleaners in the fuel may be enough to take care of that though and its a little more difficult to get to, so maybe take a wait and see approach there.


For being the "Low end" Porsche it is surprising how tight and solid 931s feel when coming from a 914. I describe my 80 as feeling like a cross between a 914 and a 951. Still has the rawness of a 914 with the dog leg 931 and no power steering, but the comfort of a 944... and then BOOST!!!

Seriously if your car doesn't already have one look at getting a manual boost controller. Just upping the turbo pressure a couple PSI over stock really transforms the car. Just maybe not on a hot day.

[dstudeba]

Congrats Gatornapper, wonderful news!!

[Gatornapper]

Question for other 931 owners here:

As the 931 has manual steering, I was expecting some steering effort. But the effort required is way above/beyond my expectations. R&P seems to work fine, can't detect anything wrong. It's just that the effort required - especially at parking speeds - is off the chart.

Is extremely heavy steering the inherent nature of a 931?

Or could it be a result of the car being in storage for 17 years?

Any tips on what I can do about it?

Are there known ways to lighten the work required?

As always, TIA for the help.

GN

[JamesM]

I had not even thought about my catalyst, but it makes sense. A cat bypass on 944 turbos is one of the first upgrades people recommend. Given crap I have seen out my exhaust im sure my cat is blown/plugged anyways.

Wondering if we could just drop the exhaust and use the broomstick method to hallow it out? It looks like one end of the pipe is a straight shot to/through the cat.


https://www.vertexauto.com/porsche-924-turb...r-p-479513.aspx

James -

From all my research I was fully prepared to do just what you described.

But it is not needed. I cannot imagine the engine running better than it does. Like new. Whatever was gumming up the CIS system - and I think the metal rod/plunger was a major part - is now completely cleared up. I'm glad - from all I read, I did not want to touch mine. Now I don't need to. Thankfully, fuel accumulator seems fine. Getting almost 1 liter flow in 30 seconds - 750ml is minimum.

Yes, you describe the car quite accurately. In every detail! Like the cross between 914 and 951.

Already picked out a nice manual boost controller a few weeks ago, made in Canada. On my list....OR.......

One expert said taking out catalyst alone raises boost significantly and safely due to loss of back pressure....now the factory boost will result in more HP. Problem is all exhaust is ONE PIECE STAINLESS STEEL. I can weld, but not stainless. Leaning that way if I can find someone who welds stainless.

Keep the suggestions coming - love hearing from those who have "gone before me" on this 931 journey.

Now it will be a battle over whether I drive the 931 or 914......

GN