ADDED 924 Turbo to stable!, New Restoration Project Options

[JamesM]

Low speeds are for sure a workout, highway speeds it feels about how I would want it to.

Replacing the tires from the 90s helped on mine. Type of tire may have some effect as well.

Question for other 931 owners here:

As the 931 has manual steering, I was expecting some steering effort. But the effort required is way above/beyond my expectations. R&P seems to work fine, can't detect anything wrong. It's just that the effort required - especially at parking speeds - is off the chart.

Is extremely heavy steering the inherent nature of a 931?

Or could it be a result of the car being in storage for 17 years?

Any tips on what I can do about it?

Are there known ways to lighten the work required?

As always, TIA for the help.

GN

[mb911]

Question for other 931 owners here:

As the 931 has manual steering, I was expecting some steering effort. But the effort required is way above/beyond my expectations. R&P seems to work fine, can't detect anything wrong. It's just that the effort required - especially at parking speeds - is off the chart.

Is extremely heavy steering the inherent nature of a 931?

Or could it be a result of the car being in storage for 17 years?

Any tips on what I can do about it?

Are there known ways to lighten the work required?

As always, TIA for the help.

GN

My dad's 931 was terribly hard to steer in like a parking lot etc. The car was only 3 years old at that time.

[Van B]

I had a 944 that I converted to manual steering rack back in college. I still joke about how hard it was to drive home after working my shoulders in the gym lol… felt great at speed and is still to this day, the absolute best steering feel I’ve ever had in a car, but it was a bear in the parking lot.

[Gatornapper]

James -

While the original Porsche part diagram of the exhaust show a joint and seam just toward the engine, mine is one-piece factory welded from cat to the turbo - and it will be a nightmare to drop.

Think mine runs too well to be plugged.

Even if I had a sawzall blade to cut the stainless I'm not sure how I'd get it welded back.

Yeah - broomstick method might work.

Let me know if you do something.

GN

I had not even thought about my catalyst, but it makes sense. A cat bypass on 944 turbos is one of the first upgrades people recommend. Given crap I have seen out my exhaust im sure my cat is blown/plugged anyways.

Wondering if we could just drop the exhaust and use the broomstick method to hallow it out? It looks like one end of the pipe is a straight shot to/through the cat.


https://www.vertexauto.com/porsche-924-turb...r-p-479513.aspx

James -

From all my research I was fully prepared to do just what you described.

But it is not needed. I cannot imagine the engine running better than it does. Like new. Whatever was gumming up the CIS system - and I think the metal rod/plunger was a major part - is now completely cleared up. I'm glad - from all I read, I did not want to touch mine. Now I don't need to. Thankfully, fuel accumulator seems fine. Getting almost 1 liter flow in 30 seconds - 750ml is minimum.

Yes, you describe the car quite accurately. In every detail! Like the cross between 914 and 951.

Already picked out a nice manual boost controller a few weeks ago, made in Canada. On my list....OR.......

One expert said taking out catalyst alone raises boost significantly and safely due to loss of back pressure....now the factory boost will result in more HP. Problem is all exhaust is ONE PIECE STAINLESS STEEL. I can weld, but not stainless. Leaning that way if I can find someone who welds stainless.

Keep the suggestions coming - love hearing from those who have "gone before me" on this 931 journey.

Now it will be a battle over whether I drive the 931 or 914......

GN

[Gatornapper]

For all 931 lovers & owners - GREAT RECENT ARTICLE from UK on this rare and exceptional car:

https://classicsworld.co.uk/cars/porsche-924-road-test/

VERY interesting quote from it re: steering

One pleasant side effect in this particular example is the far lighter steering than you would expect; a combination of those longer steering arms reducing gearing and the larger non Lux steering wheel, but this is not common to true UK spec 924 Turbos. The steering in those should still feel lighter than a naturally aspirated Lux owing to the gearing, though by less of a margin. We found this car perfectly communicative – while Motor would have preferred more direct gearing in period, we didn’t push David’s beautiful example hard enough to appreciate the benefit for which they might have hoped.

GN

[Gatornapper]

Registered car yesterday and got Antique vanity plates:

924TURB

7-digit max. Will be a couple weeks before I get them - will post pic then.

Or, should I have gotten "924TRBO" ????????

For $60, I can get it. I like both.

GN

[JamesM]

Interesting. I will have to take a look at mine. it has been a while.

There is a 924 Turbo/carerra GT group on facebook that seems to be a lot more active than the 924 board. Saw someone selling a complete turbo exhaust on there recently. May want to check it out.

James -

While the original Porsche part diagram of the exhaust show a joint and seam just toward the engine, mine is one-piece factory welded from cat to the turbo - and it will be a nightmare to drop.

Think mine runs too well to be plugged.

Even if I had a sawzall blade to cut the stainless I'm not sure how I'd get it welded back.

Yeah - broomstick method might work.

Let me know if you do something.

GN

[Gatornapper]

James -

Thanks. I quit FB about 5 years ago. Too bad. Sounds like a group that could be a benefit for sure. And for sure FB Marketplace is the place now to buy and sell stuff.

Used to think FB was neutral and ok. But now I truly think it is evil the way it is a form of mind-control over the naive and ignorant and a propoganda machine that too often silences truth.

Can't go there again.

GN

Interesting. I will have to take a look at mine. it has been a while.

There is a 924 Turbo/carerra GT group on facebook that seems to be a lot more active than the 924 board. Saw someone selling a complete turbo exhaust on there recently. May want to check it out.

James -

While the original Porsche part diagram of the exhaust show a joint and seam just toward the engine, mine is one-piece factory welded from cat to the turbo - and it will be a nightmare to drop.

Think mine runs too well to be plugged.

Even if I had a sawzall blade to cut the stainless I'm not sure how I'd get it welded back.

Yeah - broomstick method might work.

Let me know if you do something.

GN

[Gatornapper]

Found steering problem is in the whole steering system - still there when car on lift and tires off ground. Upper bushings shot, as may be shocks. Whole upper bushing washer and shock piston turn with wheels, sounding like rubber being dragged.

Later a member on 924board nailed it before I could post about it.

We pulled the shocks then re-installed, and that improved things somewhat, but shafts of shocks and top washer on top bushing still turning with wheels. Never seen this before.

Will put in Koni's and new bushings soon.

GN

[Gatornapper]

Ok, ordered and on the way: new front Koni Sport shocks, bushings; new front rotors.

Removing (a nightmare on Turbo) the WUV/WUR to do a rebuild on it. Engine starts great but won't run properly until a little warmed up - couple minutes...typical of WUV problem.

EVERYTHING on the car works but 2 things: passenger door power window switch will go up but not down; electric cooling fan #2 doesn't come on when engine gets hot. All else works, including power mirrors. Yay! Oh - Odometer dead - gotta rebuild that too.

With no heat in shop/garage, hard finding times when it's warm enough to work out there - 45 is about my minimum.

GN

[VaccaRabite]

With no heat in shop/garage, hard finding times when it's warm enough to work out there - 45 is about my minimum.
GN

Thats the truth! 10+ years ago I'd be in the garage so long as the snow didn't squeak when I stepped on it (about 14degrees). These days I need more heat to stay motivated.

My VW Westy project hasn't been touched since deer season started, and probably won't until about march

Zach

[Gatornapper]

Update on 931 resto........

Steering now fine, lubed all and turned lock-to-lock on lift about 30 times. Koni's not in yet, but soon.

Engine running perfectly now! Started quickly but would quit. Would not stay running until started 6 or more times, then very rough until warmed up. Once warmed up it ran great.

Warm Up Regulator was stuck closed. WUR sends rich fuel mixture to engine when cold, gradually leans out mixture as engine warms up.

Problem with WUR is getting to it - almost impossible. MOST DIFFICULT engine component to remove/install in my whole 60 years of wrenching!

I came up with an unknown method to un-stick the WUR, but then it went from stuck closed (engine won’t run till warm) to stuck open (engine overheats from running too lean). So I had to remove it and rebuild it.

A bench rebuild of the unit was easy - tons of experience with more complex devices - but tolerances in this device far more tiny than anything I’ve ever worked on. I read an expert say most WUR’s just need cleaning, not a rebuild kit, so I did that, and while I have a $90 rebuild kit on the way from Germany (only ones are in Germany and Australia), I didn’t need it. Rebuilt it in an hour - easy.

Removing the small unit took over 3 hours. Re-installing it took 4 to 5 hours. PAINFUL hours.

Finally got it installed yesterday afternoon, and VOILA! Engine starts cold and runs smoothly just like it did when new! Not touching accelerator pedal.

If you are interested in the details, read here til the end of the thread……….

https://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=45...sc&start=30

If you want to see what WUR looks like, and how to do a rebuild, watch this - but fast forward to the middle…….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVsnF2RlEqw

Took her for a 45 min spin in the area twisties late yesterday and car runs and handles great - not at all like a 914, but very neutral steering, no roll. Feeling the turbo kick in is a hoot - wish the 914 had that!

Still loving this car…….

GN

[dstudeba]

Great to hear, congrats!

I keep looking at 931s and found a nice two tone one that fits the bill but in the meantime I took on a 914 project so I will still just be an observer for a while.

[Gatornapper]

RickB45 (here) is a close friend, and when we drove to Cleveland to pick up my 931, he picked up a mint '85 944 in Detroit and drove it home. Rick also has a stunning almost Concours '72 914, a beautiful customized 997.1 and a '90 FiberFab 356 Replica he has put together. And now a 944 whose 2 PO's were Porsche mechanics who pretty much made the car new mechanically. Oh, he has owned air-cooled 911's and an '11 Cayman in the past. Addicted? Yeah.

We have been talking about taking his 944 and my 931 out to thrash them together, then swap cars, do it again, and then compare. Yesterday we did it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)

Me in 931 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) Rick in 944 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

The 931 has been consistently running so well, starting instantly no matter what the temp, maintaining great engine temps and oil pressure, so I felt it's time to let her rip.
We did a 924T vs 944 challenge. Most roads where I live are super twisty.

We took both cars out on my choice of super twisty roads. I pushed the 931 like I’ve never pushed it.

So yesterday I floored it repeatedly. I thrashed it in the turns. I cut it loose.

Rick tried to keep up staying close behind me in the 944. I’d pull away from him in the straights. He’d catch me in the turns.

Then - we switched cars. I still in the lead - but in the 944. Fun all over again. Same story, different drivers.

Main problem is in the 931…….the ancient tires. They are 20 years old and as I'm having to put 4 new tires on my '11 Cayman S this month, they will have to do for a while. They seriously hindered the handling. I also have new Koni Sport shocks going in the front of the 931 & new strut bushings too. Those will radically change the 931 handling.

But the best news of the day was with Rick in front of medriving the 931, me following him. So WHAT is the GOOD NEWS?

No matter how hard Rick drove it, accelerated, wound it out - no a hint of smoke of any color out the tailpipe!

THAT MEANS THE INTERNALS OF THE ENGINE ARE IN GREAT SHAPE! No problems with rings, valve seals, etc. I WAS OVERJOYED!

Now that Audi 4-banger is known for being bulletproof, rock-solid, built like a tank. So I’m not surprised. But I am so glad to know how solid the engine is.

Now I know or sure I got a dgreat deal on the 931. Not a super-good deal - $4k or less would have been a good deal - but I got a decent deal.

For which I am grateful.

Very soon this car will be my daily driver and I can give my Cayman S (just turned 96,000 miles today) a break!

Oh - bottom line - the 931 will out-accelerate the 944, but does not handle the turns as well. But the 944 has much larger new tires, much wider stance/track, and has a lot of new suspension parts. On hard turns, the 944 stays very much in control, while the 931 leaves you feeling it’s not quite sure - not as certain, not as nimble. It's handling is still very neutral. But so different from both the 914 and the Cayman S.

Much of that will change with new tires and Koni’s. How much? We will see. I can hardly wait.

Loving this 924 Turbo!

GN

[Gatornapper]

Ok, a way-overdue fill-in on what happened from this last post above to 9/17/22, and then to 9/30/22.

New tires on the 931 helped a lot.

But something happened in my driving Rick's 944 after driving my 931 on multiple occasions:

I fell in love with the 944.

The refinements between the two cars are huge - a long list. Power steering just being one. Transmission and shift pattern being another. Much better handling too.

I got the 931 90% restored and changed my plan for the car: I'm gonna see if I can get good $$$ selling it, and if I do, look for a 951 or S2 (rare - especially for my budget).

Wow. Lots of folk wanted my sweet 931. In fact, I sold it TWICE! Had contract and deposit from first guy, but he later changed his mind, lost his deposit. Next buyer took delivery near the NC line on 9/17.

I decided I didn't want a project car, but a daily driver so I could give my Cayman S a break. After 9 years of frequent use, she broke the 100k mile barrier - and needs a rest and become a weekly driver.

I do in-depth research on all old-car purchases (finding mechanics and earlier owners) and drove 951 sellers crazy with my questions - one in NYC (of course) even said, "FU". I was ready to pull the trigger on a really nice 951 that needed nothing in Albany, NY with 83k miles on it being sold by Porsche/BMW shop for client when Rick sent me an ad for this incredible, all-original '87 944S that needed almost nothing, owned for 19 years by seller, with all maintenance records back to 1993.

The rest of the story is posted here on a new thread.

GN