Tinware writing, Was this on all cars…?? Options

[JeffBowlsby]

@wonkipop

Wonki...Your research is exhaustive, appreciated and commendable. I need to wade through this in greater detail althought I have been distantly keeping tabs on it all along.

But one thing piques my interest...you identify 4 engine tin codes which are really two sets of two codes that you suggest indicate both with/without the center console and gauges as a prime variable. The EC-A and EC-B designations appear on the emissions sticker so obviously they pertain to emisions in some way. And I like your throttle body/vaccum line arrangement discoveries.

But the center console with its gauges was an optional equipment item that is plug N play and has nothing to do with emissions. All 1974 914s had the same chassis harness with the center console connections in the cabin floor, whether the car was equipped with the console or not. Seems odd that the optional console would be somehow related to the engine tin code.

Your thoughts?

Unless (?) the tins for the console/gauges cars were just a bit different, like an extra hole or slit for sensor/sender wires to the gauges. Thoughts?

Nope. The oil temp sender wire emanates through the engine shelf on the car, not the engine tin.

I am thinkin its only the subtleties of the throttle body/vaccum connecitons as Wonki has described.

[wonkipop]

gentlemen.


i'm not referring to the wire.
correct me if i am wrong but the wire for the oil temp gauge sender was already there in all cars anyway?

i'm talking about the plate on the bottom of the engine.
thats the part that is different on a complete engine assembly in a car without the gauge v a car with the gauge.
that lid is only available for the 1.7, 1.8 and 2.0. ie 1973 on. when the gauge pack and console is available as an option.
1.7s earlier than 1973 are referred to as plain 914/4 or 914-4 in the parts manual not 1.7.
reading PET closely it looks like it says to me that all 2.0s got the special gauge plate by default, but not 1.8s. unless you ordered the 1.8 with the gauges from factory the plate was the standard one. PET implies you could do same thing with a 1.7 in 73 too.







bear in mind that the engines (completely assembled) came from the hamburg factory, 230km from osnabruek.

if the practices at hamburg were the same as wolfsburg the engines were filled with oil once fully assembled and ok'ed. the last step before being sent further down the line was to spin them up on a machine connected to the engine. they were not fired up, but they were spun up. the first time they were fired was at the end of the production line when the car was driven off the line and on to a rolling road. (i think they extracted a sampling of engines to run on a dyno before they left the engine assembly area but i don't think they ran all the engines on a dyno fired up).

i'd say it would be highly likely the same thing was occurring at karmann.
the production line was in most respects similar just at a smaller scale.
particularly the last bit where fully fitted out bodies were mated with the drive train and suspension assemblies. the drivetrains were on a heavy jig that appeared to move in sideways under the overhead cradle carrying the completed bodies. these engines (and gearboxes) were sealed components, already filled with lubricant (oil or grease) much as per other components arriving at the factory.

it would be inconvenient at karmann if you went for the wire for the oil gauge with a build sheet that said console and the shell had the console already in only to find there was no temp sensing "oil sump lid" present on the engine. or worse it was the wrong engine sitting there on the jig ready to go with the gearbox and the rest of it, because a hungover worker had pulled a 2.0 off the rack.

you could plug and play and take the car off the line and change the plate.
but you would probably have to do an oil change on the factory floor?
you would be "breaking open" the engine.
you could do the same thing at the dealer in the USA for sure. just lose the oil.
(but not with a 2.0 by the looks of it, with those it really was just plug and play? - plates already there whether its a 2.0 with appearance group or not?)
i'm not sure how much oil comes out when you pull that plate but its either the lot or enough.
but these were coming off that assembly line with guages and consoles installed.

its an assembly line, not a garage workshop?

logistics?

i don't think these numbers are some kind of mystery.
its code for the assembly workers to make sure the right component comes off the rack at the right time? its about having the correct finished and sealed component - in this case the engine. part of that is the emissions gear. that affects the component being made elsewhere. and part of that is an options alternative. that also affects the sealed component made elsewhere. more than emissions variables are able to affect the composition of the component? thats the logic i am using for this probably false theory.

one of the surprising things that did come out of this little bit of "research" was that on some days in nov. 73 they were putting minimum 120 cars out the door. (we got a k# with a 6 in it). they might have been working two shifts? but if they weren't thats one every 4 minutes? even one every 8 minutes is fast.

if you are fooling around with taco plates your losing time?

[wonkipop]

my theory does not explain this however.

[wonkipop]

this is an interesting vid to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx0UHvkR_qY

its not vw in the 1970s.
but it gives an insight.
if nothing else its entertaining.

or you can skip to near the end.
last step before it heads off to the dyno.

[wonkipop]

pictures of the part i am talking about.
oil gasket is involved.
i have no gauges, and if i wanted them, nothing to hook up to.
just like the last picture.

[wonkipop]

its a good thing we are not trying to do the 75 1.8s.

the distributors get complex to make sense of in the PET catalogue.
i take my hat off to the porsche USA spare parts guys working in the 70s.

the PET i have (and i guess a lot of folks have downloaded) carries the numbers for parts that have superseded the original part.
the new dist is 021 905 205 S that replaced the original 74 dist.

the factory manual refers only to the original distributor for 74 1.8s.
022 905 225 AA.

but you can work it out.
there is only one distributor for 74.
its 022 905 225 AA.
(for 74 they either connect the advance hose for 49 states and don't connect it for california - we surmise, because you can go through the factory workshop manual front to back and there is nothing there to mention that its one hose for calif, and two hoses elsewhere. the only place that is is the tune up sticker on the engine and the CARB docs that L-Jet put us on to).

for 75 it gets way more complicated.
they use a new distributor. 022 905 205 AB.
it uses two different rotors.
a speed limited rotor for 49 states.
a rotor without a speed switch for california - instead a separate speed switch near the relays for the EFI under the battery. limits fuel supply instead of cutting ignition spark. (the californians want that spark there still burning hydrocarbons rather than spewing unburnt fuel out the exhaust on over rev?).
the 75 distributors have a different vacuum can with different retard values than the 74s.
the 75 distributors have the same centrifigal values as 74.
neither 49 states or calif have the advance hose hooked up. that is specifically mentioned in the factory workshop manual.

the parts catalogue can throw things because it suggests there is an alternative rotor for 74 distributor. but i think its really saying the older 022 905 225 A rotor is the one to use with the S dist. that supersedes - making sure you have the speed limited rotor.

but the catalogue puts it the same way for the 75, except they are suggesting there is an alternative rotor to the rotor they list separately which is speed limited. no other mention is made of that rotor except under the primary listing of the distributor. you can't read it the same way as you can the 74 dist. the 75 dist is not listed as having any superseding part.

the only seperate rotors as parts listed further on for 74 and 75 are speed limited.
its a very esoteric way of picking up the non speed limited rotor.

if you were a spare parts guy you would have had to know your stuff.
though it would not make much difference to how the car would run in california, its just you would get ignition cut off as well as fuel cut off if you fitted the 49 states rotor by accident? or maybe there is something in the ECU too. i'll leave that for whoever wants to try and crack 75 engine stamps.

less safeguards (none!!!) if you fitted the calif rotor to the dist without having the calif. fuel cut off switch. nothing to stop you over-reving? no ignition cut off, no fuel cut off.

-------

thats how they did the distributor for 74. they kept it simple. same distributor, just the advance hose went nowhere for calif.

[wonkipop]

going back to the start of this wild goose chase and @Clubsport32 question.




chasing stuff about 1.8 numbers i did come across a limited set of M #s for type 4s (411/412). for 1973 MY for EA and EB engines for 412s, M553 meant north american (usa/canada) specification. since they were using EA engines in europe that probably meant drilling out the fan hosing for the charcoal filter hose port on na cars to distinguish them from euro?

didn't run across M28.
its fair to say that the engine stamp there is saying its got two M code specs.
M28/553.

didn't stumble on anything that could say what 022.6 would mean.

[wonkipop]

my theory does not explain this however.

ok @JeffBowlsby .

i had another crack at this one and went back to the BAT ad.
found another image.
not d370 - but EA370.
some paint missing or dirt over it.
enhanced you can see it.




the car it came from is a very early 74 1.8
built Nov 1 1973. (k# 4459576). vin 4742907674.
possibly in the first few days of production of the 1.8 L jets.

i had another look at your collection of paint markings on your website.
you have a number of GA 2.0 engines also with the EA 370 stamp along with 621 underneath.

its possible that EA 370 is not referring to a specific engine type, (ie 2.0L or 1.8L) but the overall development number for the model year engines. in this case 74MY?
maybe very early engines bear the EA stamp? certainly curious that both a 1.8 and some 2.0L engines have the same EA number stamped on them.

[wonkipop]

HOW THE NUMBERS WORK FOR 70-71

022.6

the engine is an 022 type 4 engine with fuel injection.
(an 021 is a type 4 engine with carburettors).

the .6 is the particular variant of the engine.
in this case with the engine tins (apron/edge pieces) to suit the 914 engine bay.

the 914 started out life as a VW type 4, with a type 4 model number.
(initially the car was to be a VW version with the 4, and a porsche version with a 6,
only closer to production did it become the hybrid VW-Porsche 914).



from parts catalogue VW Type 411/412




M26/553 were VW M Codes outlining a particular specification for the 022.6 (914) variant of the type 4 engine.

full list of type 4 M-Codes.
from parts catalogue VW Type 411/412.







this



means
type 022 engine (fuel injected type 4) for 6 (vw-porsche 914/4)
with
M26 activated charcoal holder for absorption of fuel gases.
part of
M553
US/Canada equipment package.
Sealed Beam Headlights, Flashing lights with side marking lights,
Tailight with Red Flashing lights,
Buzzer for Ignition Switch,
Side Marking Lights,
Dual Circuit Brake light,
but without headlight flasher and parking lights etc.

in short - 914 engine for north america.

at this stage they were only making the one 4 cylinder engine for north america through 70,71 and 72.

things got more complicated in 73.
i've seen photos of VW type 1 engines accumulating a large number of M codes on them to mark the spec they are / which model.
easy to start having errors on assembly line - wrong engine off the shelf?



from 72 - 73 things get simplified.
they move into a single stamped three number code.
right across the entire VW model range.
more on that next.

- the 914 4 cylinders get 6 as the first number of that code, at least until 1975.

[JeffBowlsby]

Amazing research. Whats the difference between 1.8 and 1.8V?

Also VERY interesting that the 1976 914 1.8/1.8V is indicated. Apparently wishful thinking.

[wonkipop]

Amazing research. Whats the difference between 1.8 and 1.8V?

Also VERY interesting that the 1976 914 1.8/1.8V is indicated. Apparently wishful thinking.

V is the code used in the parts manual to distinguish the twin carb euro 1.8.
carby is Vergaser in german.
strictly speaking they maybe should have called them 1.8Z in the catalogue.
Zweivergasser. dual carb. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

yeah, i don't think they sold them in 76 given they sold only 101 1.8Vs in ROW in 75.
its about the only sub variant (besides the G two litres) you can work out the production numbers for since the engine was in nothing else.

you can't find 022.6 stated explicitely anywhere in any VW documents i came across but you can surmise it from that 411/412 PET. 022.1 022.2 022.3 and so on.

i found all this stuff getting to the bottom of EC-A and EC-B.
there is more. i'll post it when i have a bit of time.
its a part explanation for the numbers that come after 72.
not complete and i can't be certain exactly how it works.
but the first number of the three is definitely allocated to particular VW models.
and they change them on an annual basis if models were dropped from the range.

the key bit of information was stumbling across the PET catalogue for the 411/412 on VW's own classic website. its in german but you can work it all out from that.
thats the only place where the type 4 M codes are. i think the 914 shared these M codes but it may have had some of its own specific ones too.

so mr. b this is all thanks to you.
i would never have normally bothered to look up this stuff.
i just wanted to find out about my EC-B engine.
its pretty obscure stuff.
and folks have had some whacky ideas about what those stamps mean.
esp on the samba site.
some guesses were pretty close when it comes to the early stamps.
but no one had worked out the three number stamps.

i think i have a version.
i'd need more info to really crack it.
but i have a version of how it works thats probably half way to it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby

below is about as far as i can take the logic for the three number series of engine stamps past 72.

first of all i looked at your engine stickers and markings section on your website.
i liked the way you posted them chronological.
to try and tease out an order?

https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/PLM.htm

i thought ok. there is something there.

the weird thing that jumps out is the EA EB series engines.
in between the numbers for the EC engines and the G series engines.

whats that about?

and then it goes from 6 as the first number for 73/74 to 9 as the first number 75/76.

its kind of chronological set of numbers and kind of not.


-------

i'd found random engine stamp numbers in research for EC engines along the way.
for different model VWs.

this is what i found.

VW type 1 engines. (beetles) with upright fan shroud.
all seemed to start with 1 as first number of three digits.
(i found a thing with the same number, has the same engine, but might not have been an original engine as i think things basically take a beetle engine straight up).







i came across a bus engine, for buses fitted with type 1 engine.
has a 2 as a first number of three digits.







found a 73 type 3 engine. (last year of type 3 production).
has a 4 as first number.







found a type 4 engine. 74 412 with L jet.
has a 5 as a first number.



----------

then found something interesting.

75 bus with a type 4 engine.
has a 7 as the first number.



couple of 78 buses with a type 4 engine.
has a 4 as the first number.
(thought, wait a minute, type 3 had 4 in 73 .....but that was it for type 3 as ceased production in 73).




so maybe buses with type 4 motor got reallocated the 4 number post 75 or something like that?
...........and is this a bit like 914 goes from 6 to 9 in 75 as the first number.

and that 6 that is in front of the 73/74 model engine stamp numbers links with the 6 that comes after 022 in the 70-72 cars. so 6 stays with 914s from 70-74 in terms of production identification for the engines being made in hamburg.

---------------

thats the point in thinking where i thought, ok the first number represents the model the engine is going in.

but the number does not stay stable. it gets reallocated in periodic adjustments of the model allocation number as VW cease production of certain models and introduce new models. there is quite a bit of that going on in the period 73-77 as VW overhaul their range and introduce the new water cooled engine cars to replace the air cooled cars.

----------------

then i took another look at the 914 numbers and arranged them slightly differently to your chronological list of markings down the page.

i used the numbers instead arrranged in ascending order down the page.

i got this as a rough worksheet. and thats all it is. a rough worksheet.



the black ones are the ones we know exist.
the red ones are the gaps in the numbers.
they could be real or they could not exist.

there are quite a few variations of the 914 engine unaccounted for.
particularly the european variants of the motor.

one way to flesh out this speculative list is to canvas member owners of 1975 1.8s.
those numbers can be obtained from resources available to this website.
they are hard to see hidden under the heater blower fan hose so members need to look and uncover them. not something you can glean from BAT ads.

as to euro 1.8s. the only one probably is that one in the porsche museum.
they may be able to oblige?

------------

i think the EA numbers work the following way.

EA370 covers the development order to do the post 72 engine range.
its probably an order supplied to porsche.

then there is the mysterious EA 349 development order.
this is matched to a 621 G series engine.
??????????


you need a full list of the VW EA projects with the dates to get to the bottom of that.

----------------

i think what happens in a very approximate way is.

initially the program for replacement engine range (post 72) gets laid out.
all the numbers are allocated.
they already know before 1972 what they have to do and they know the steps ahead in relation to US EPA and CARB laws and the years in which the steps will occur.
1. unleaded gas.
2. lowered NOx CO HC emissions.
3. introduction of cats.

so the set of two final numbers of the three get allocated/listed.

initially it would have all been laid out under the assumption of 6 as the first number.

the 6 gets changed to 9 in 75 because VW do a reshuffle on the model number the engine is going into as they rearrange their model range?

thats as far as i can take it.

but it is within the means of this website and members to flesh out the 9 series of numbers for the 75 1.8s and fill in a few more gaps.


and i have made my deadline to get all of this out of my files and on to the website here before the end of the year so i can go do something useful in 2020.

happy new year for 12 hours away now here. we are on the other side of the dateline.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[StarBear]

@wonkipop - and a very happy ending to 2021 and hope for a grand 2022 to you from the other side of The Blue Marble! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)
Thanks for all you've done for us this past year! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby

came across one more you can add to list of 914 stamped numbers.

throws my theory out a bit!

920. (75 1.8)

(there is a 620 given to a 73-74 GB 2.0 L engine).

advertised on ebay as a 75 1.8 engine.
looks right. emission sticker in correct place.





close up of emission sticker says its a 49 state car.

[JeffBowlsby]

Thanks! I needed this 75 1.8L emissions label. Did I miss the theory on why these are not ECA-ECB? I have 918 as a 1975 1.8L 49-state car, this 920 is a new wrinkle.

[wonkipop]

Thanks! I needed this 75 1.8L emissions label. Did I miss the theory on why these are not ECA-ECB? I have 918 as a 1975 1.8L 49-state car, this 920 is a new wrinkle.

yep - also wrinkles my theory on the engine numbers.

according to what i was thinking - the run of numbers from 73 on mean a 75 1.8 can't share the last two numbers of the three with a 73-74 2.0L. but looks like it does, (20) so there is some other explanation for the ordering of the numbers than they are cumulative.

918 and 920 seem to apply to 75 EC-a (small a = 49 state 1975).
so like in 74 there are two numbers for at least one of the 75 EC engine sub variants.
(i had that bit of my theory/prediction right with this 920 popping up).
EC-A (74 calif) = 606, 607.
EC-B (74 usa) = 604, 605.
and now.
EC-a (75 usa) = 918, 920.

need to get a number/numbers? on a 75 EC-b (calif).

i ran back over my files and found this looking closely.
a 75 1.8 chassis number .....01627. build date 10/74.
(this was a washington car sold new - 49 states).
has an EA number above 918 but its very smudged.
it seems of every year production there is a smattering of engines early on in the run which have these EA stamps additional to the numbers. at least the ones i have come across and can link to a vin/k#.

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby

@StarBear

The director of the Porsche Heritage and Museum replied to my letter.
I wrote as nice a letter as i could.

below is the engine stamp number for a 1974 !.8 (euro spec) AN engine.
(without appearance group gauges and console.)
This is the silver 1.8 held in the museum and was donated by Mr. Horst Marchart, former Porsche Development Chief.

its as hot as hell here and i couldn't sleep.
wandered down and took a look at computer having a glass of water - email just came through.

[StarBear]

Wow! Great job. More data on a different version. Making progress! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

[Van B]

That is so cool!!!

[wonkipop]

i thought about that letter for a month before i wrote it.

i got a reply back in less than 24 hours.


basically i just said we were interested in preserving a culture of how things were made by a culture of people. thats all i did.
and ......i guess the car was accessible.
i also gave clear directions so that no one would be wasting time to take a look at it.

there is one number missing.
609.
i doubt we will ever find an example.
but my theory is sound when it comes to 1974 1.8s?

it gets more chaotic after that in 75 in terms of the number sequencing.

i have another thought on the whole thing.
which is 1.8 L jets were supposed to appear in 73.
but they did not make it on time.

thats a ramones song.
" i can't make it on time". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)