Tinware writing, Was this on all cars…?? Options

[wonkipop]

1973 1.7L EB code has lower compression, to meet CA emissoins. Its on your posted chart.

ok.
when you need primary research material,
few places better than your great website jeff.

in the exceptional cars page.

1974 1.8







vin 01 74.
californian car (see windscreen cal emission clear sticker).
is an EC-A

wonki's car.
vin 01 74
maryland delivery.
is an EC-B

should be the other way around if B = california and A = 49 states.

A and B must mean something else i think?

my car (late jan) is 1055 cars after this one.

[JeffBowlsby]

914 mysteries continue...

[StarBear]

Good info. @wonkipop looks like your vin number is well after mine, confirming 11/73 as my build date and more confirmation of not-very-useful COA sheet that has manuf date 3/74 and I bought in 5/74.

[wonkipop]

@StarBear .

mine is 13361 for last 5 digits.

@JeffBowlsby & Starbear.


ok. i found something in the parts book.
mr. b is right, in there there is listed for 74 a 1.8 and a 1.8 (california) for some distinct parts. he is right about cal but i can't find anything that connects them to EC-A or EC-B designation to absolutely say which is which.

(the reason this A and B triggered something mr. b is i was looking at distributors last week for Van B, a few of us 1.8ers were going over cold start hiccups - i saw something then cruising the fac manual and the parts list but it wasn't 1.8 cal or not cal.

first up.
replacement engines as listed in parts catalogue



2. throttle bodies for 74 1.8
the engine nos. for 1974 EC engines run from EC 0 (zeros) to EC0 037 551.
552 is the first engine for 75 1.8s.
there is a throttle body for CA and a throttle body for USA.
i don't know what the difference is. can't tell from this info.




3. distributors for 74 1.8s.

factory workshop manual says there is a
022 905 205AA and a 022 905 205AB for 1.8 cars but doesn't say for what year.
parts catalogue says there is only a 022 905 205 AB distributor. no AA is there anywhere. parts cat says there is an AB and an S for 1.8 and that 74s (see engine number range) have an S distributor. assume S is what is called AA in factor workshop manual? so 74 gets a different distributor than 75 but not two different distributors in 74 only 1.






4. brain
all 74 1.8s have the same ECU.




so it looks like one difference between what is termed a 1.8 and 1.8 (cali) in 74 is the throttle body.

i'm assuming mine being a maryland car is a 74 1.8 (USA). and the sticker says its EC-B
its got the advance and retard two hose set up from TB to both sides of dist. vac can.

the mystery continues.

[JeffBowlsby]

Wow...I think you are on to something. I dont knwo 1.8L throttle bodies. Wonder if the 1.8 owners brain trust can survey their car for the TB ports and dizzy PN.

Great job...

[wonkipop]

Good info. @wonkipop looks like your vin number is well after mine, confirming 11/73 as my build date and more confirmation of not-very-useful COA sheet that has manuf date 3/74 and I bought in 5/74.

there is another coincidence @StarBear .
My car was purchased by Jeremy and Delores of Dixon Hill Maryland in May 75 i believe.
thats the date on the delivery inspection in the glovebox manual. just in time for summer.

same as you mate! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[StarBear]

Wow...I think you are on to something. I dont knwo 1.8L throttle bodies. Wonder if the 1.8 owners brain trust can survey their car for the TB ports and dizzy PN.

Great job...

Will check mine. Pretty sure the dizzy (original) is AA. Have been keeping my eye out for a backup but have never seen one.

[wonkipop]

Wow...I think you are on to something. I dont knwo 1.8L throttle bodies. Wonder if the 1.8 owners brain trust can survey their car for the TB ports and dizzy PN.

Great job...

all right youz two
@JeffBowlsby & @StarBear .

part # on throttle body of mine.
022 133 067A
with a H above it.

wouldn't you know it - does not accord with parts catalogue #022 133 062 H.
except for maybe the H bit, sort of.



this made me think someone's whacked in a replacement throttle body before i got it.
did a search on web, threw up a lot of stuff that has already gone down on this website 10 years ago. you have already brushed up against this one before jeff.
everyone got a headache out of it back then and no one had their head around it except dave darling and capn krusty.

point 1.
turns out the part# on my TB is right. same as other 74 1.8s so something short circuits in the parts catalogue where VW does a part number resequence or whatever for the 1.8s and its not in there right.
the parts catalogue is right for D jet 1.7 TBs PN. they do have the 022 133 062 number - i inspected a random ebay photo .

point 2.
in that thread from 10 years back someone posted a 75 1.8 with throttle body part #
022 133 067C. it was a cali i believe with EGR etc.
i conclude that the 1.8s have throttle body part #s that are 022 133 067 followed by a Letter for region/chronological variant identification.

there are at least 2 versions an A in 74 and a C in 75.

i can't read my distributor PN at the moment.
i need a magnifying glass hooked up to a robot to crawl down there and read it.
tried taking a photo. just blurs.

what this survey would need from owners of 1.8s is

as suggested above the PN of dizzy and TB.
but also the pic of the engine bay sticker (EC-A or EC-B).

------

its possible that the 1.8 throttle body PN cast in is an audi part #?
VW part # in the catalogue might correspond or equate via internal code.
its got audi symbol cast in as well as VW.

[StarBear]

OK; Here are my "unmolested" 1.8L data:
1. 74 MY; Build date 11/73 door jamb sticker
2. EC-B Engine sticker
3. Dizzy: Bosch 231-181-009; VW 022 905 205AA (my notes show VW superceded by 205S). Two-port vacuum can.
4. Throttle body has no visible part number, particularly in same location as @wonkipop ; not under the collar by the ribbed air intake tube. It "may" be on the underside between the vacuum advance/retard hoses, but just replaced that gasket a few months ago (after 47 years) and really don't want to open it back up again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Maybe (?) that may be a significant determination?
@Big Len: What do you have on yours? @BigLen @Big_Len "@Big Len"
5. ECU: VW 002 906 201G ;Bosch 0 280 000 103
Photos:

[wonkipop]

@StarBear . distributor superseded PN is handy info. explains throttle body PN difference in parts catalogue. PET i have is dated 2010. throttle body in PET is a superseded PN from somewhere else in the VW range for the original TB?

photo of your TB shows it is exactly same as mine (at least on visible half).
i'm guessing you never changed your TB - you are in the fortunate position of absolutely knowing. mine could be a replacement during first owners stint.

i went and had a look at the 411/412 catalogue at VW classic.
you know about that one. on the german VW website.
hidden on the website are old catalogues.
but the PN catalogues are for euro 412s. exclude the USA catalogues.
so only earlier D Jet 1.7 and twin carb 1.8 parts, no L jet parts.
guess only USA 412s ran L jet?
those catalogues do have the original part #s for things at the time of production.

thinking thats why the AAV is listed in the PET i have as a 944 PN.
944 AAV is now NLA. but if i could find a 944 PET of recent date i'd probably be able to get to a replacement AAV and it would be good for a 914 as well?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[StarBear]

Yep; my TB is original. Curiosity is telling me to yank it to look underneath for the PN but my head and back are saying no. Voices….

[wonkipop]

Yep; my TB is original. Curiosity is telling me to yank it to look underneath for the PN but my head and back are saying no. Voices….

don't pull it out. why disturb it.

between us we have the PN for the TB and the dist i reckon for an EC-B.


EDIT

@StarBear .
got the camera in enough to read the last part of the dizzy PN
looks like its a 231 181 009 Bosch PN same as yours.
rest of VW PN goes around where i can't see to read.
safe to say its a AA same as yours.






found this thread about the man who rebuilds throttle bodies.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=271012

its got images of 1.8 throttle bodies with same PN as mine.
022 133 067A (H)
but the retard port to dizzy hose looks blanked off unlike mine which is opened up for dizzy hose.
mysteries continue?

one of the throttle bodies pictured belongs to @nihil44 .
he is in australia.
if he reads this he might be able to cast some light.

[wonkipop]

@StarBear & @JeffBowlsby

figured out the part # discrepancy in my throttle body.
there is a consistent typo in the PET catalogue.
PET lists all throttle body numbers final three digits as 062.
it should be 067.

i did a search through google images and scanned some ebay adds.

the 1.7s all end in 067.

the 2.0s even end in 067.

PET lists even these as 062s (incorrectly?).

1.7




2.0

[StarBear]

Awesome investigative work, @wonkipop !
Yep; PN on mine on the side of the TB stem like the photo above. 067A with the Audi logo and a little “1” to the right of the logo.
Soooo, the TBs on the 1.8s ARE a different part number. Next obvious question is “HOW are they different?” Or just “A” to designate PN for supply to Audi? The VW versions don’t have the A; sort of like a supersede designation?
The mystery evolves. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[wonkipop]

Awesome investigative work, @wonkipop !
Yep; PN on mine on the side of the TB stem like the photo above. 067A with the Audi logo and a little “1” to the right of the logo.
Soooo, the TBs on the 1.8s ARE a different part number. Next obvious question is “HOW are they different?” Or just “A” to designate PN for supply to Audi? The VW versions don’t have the A; sort of like a supersede designation?
The mystery evolves. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

@Starbear - what you need to see, if you can easily, is if yours has an H cast/stamped on it anywhere.
it might be somewhere else.

i think the way it works is that all the 1.7s are 022 133 067 with either a D or an E also on the throttle body. the D or E is stamped elsewhere and not immediately after the numerical PN? the D is on the earlier 1.7 cars and the E is on later 1.7s. i'm guessing A, B,C would be EFI VW engines with D jet earlier than 914s.

for a 2.0 the TB is 039 133 067 with either a D, B or C stamped somewhere else?
but not relevant to this discussion. but interesting i suppose since the parts catalogue implies its revised or different along the way.

for a 1.8 the TB is 022 133 067A with either an H, L, R or S stamped elsewhere.
the A immediately after the numerical numbers signifies it is the first significant variant of the original 1.7 throttle body? bigger bore on a 1.8 for a start?
the H L R or S signifies some other smaller variation in the throttle body?
so far i have only been able to come across images of TBs with the H stamped on them like mine.

your TB is likely an early batch of the 1.8 TBs and has the PN stamped on the spindle like 1.7 TBs. after earlier batch they change the casting, or maybe even the supplier of the casting?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[StarBear]

Maybe that little “1” I saw was an “L”. Will recheck and post.

[wonkipop]

something i got to check is i swear i came across an 062 throttle body on an images search earlier, but i might have confused it. i'll have to dig around and see if i screen grabbed it and filed it. sure is slightly weird this PN discrepancy with the PET. the germans don't usually make mistakes like that?

[wonkipop]

Maybe that little “1” I saw was an “L”. Will recheck and post.

there is a 1 stamped on mine as well. its next to the VW logo.
its under the PN.
it goes 1 (VW LOGO) (AUDI LOGO).

[StarBear]

Maybe that little “1” I saw was an “L”. Will recheck and post.

there is a 1 stamped on mine as well. its next to the VW logo.
its under the PN.
it goes 1 (VW LOGO) (AUDI LOGO).

Here's mine. Definitely a "1" and varies from your description (VW, Audi, "1")
No letter that I can find, unless it's back under some surface not visible unless the unit is removed and inspected; clearly not next to the PN.

Yeah; consistency is pretty "loose".

[wonkipop]

i had to reread up how VW parts numbers work again.
a mystery because it can never be fully explained unless you knew all the obscure parts groups and inconsistencies in numbers....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

but

first three letters in this case means engine group developed for.
would be the type 4 engine. (it can mean other things like model, but it will mean enigne in this case because its an engine part.)
022 = type 4 engine i think. (039 is the porsche designed 2.0 L variant)

second three letters mean the engine part.

133.
1 = engine.
33 = throttle body.

third three letters mean

location identifier.
067 = where it is on the engine (or could mean on the car itself).

letter at end means variation. A is usually the first. sometimes the first has no letter after it and then the first variation (ie second version) has the A. its inconsistent too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

at some point VW changed its catalogueing order and throttle bodies were given a different location identifier of 062 in all their updated catalogues.
as a result of that 067 became 062 in PET and there would be some internal accounting that meant any replacement throttle bodies were reassigned the number. either with a new label on the box maybe or if parts were actually made in new batches maybe even stamped with a new number or whatever they did to cope with that to make sure you got the right part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

so the H L R or S variants of the throttle body mentioned in the PET catalogue are new reassigned numbers and could appear differently on the original parts we have.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

the PET catalogue is not much use except to say there are four variations. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

you have to find examples of the original parts in the 4 variations to work out what they were actually stamped.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

so far we know there was an A version. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
that could mean A version of original 1.7 throttle body = 1.8 throttle body.
all the other numbers are the same from 1.7 to 1.8. nothing else to distinguish except 1.7 TBs have no letter after the number as far as i can find.

i'm thinking it means A = what identifies a 1.8 throttle body from a 1.7 throttle body.

and that H could still mean the first sub variant beyond it being a 1.8.
but (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) & (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) is still really what i think.
given confusing possibilities of VW PNs its possible the first batch of throttle bodies (like yours might be StarBear) they just have the PN ending in A and there is no H because at that point maybe there was no other version yet superseding it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
but after a second version has to appear - says its an L, they give the original version in its later batches a H as well. you just don't know with VW.

the only way to really do this is to collect images from people.
see what they have.
and try and get info from cars reasonably certain to be original.