Tinware writing, Was this on all cars…?? Options

[wonkipop]

@StarBear .

Found another one that was for sale at Classic Cars of Sarasota.
(wasn't a bad looking car, looked v original, sold, someone got themselves a good one i think)

VIN 01/74
karmann build date 14 Jan 74.
its 852 cars before mine and built 12 days prior.
(interesting - they built at least 81 cars that day, gives some idea of production levels).

two hose tune up sticker.
orig two hose vacuum hook up still on it.
as per wonki/starbear/van b.

could not read emission sticker, not quite in good enough res/focus. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
but - i would say based on the rest of it - is an EC-B as it matches ours

[StarBear]

More interesting stuff.
Found the tuneup sticker thread - at http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...engine++sticker
From member @oakpark but his ID doesn't indicate what car he has and he's not been on since July. COVID or just busy? Oakpark - do you know which car this was from?

BTW, here's his original image that started it all. 2 hoses, 1 port.
The one I started with was from @JeffBowlsby , just a bit further down in the thread. 1 hose, 1 port. Jeff - do you know which car this was from?

Interesting tidbit observation: Even the sticker with the two hoses shows only ONE vacuum can port.

[JeffBowlsby]

I dont, sorry. I right click alot and dont recall them all...

Perhaps one/both of you can create the correct vacuum hose diagram for EC-A and EC-B cars?

[StarBear]

I dont, sorry. I right click alot and dont recall them all...

Perhaps one/both of you can create the correct vacuum hose diagram for EC-A and EC-B cars?

Thanks, Jeff.
Thinking about updating it - just not sure which arrangement(s) go with for the EC-A car. So far, two variations of stickers: 1 hose, 1 port and 2 hoses, 1 port. Have yet to see any with 2 hoses and two ports. My repro is now more "generic", with no hoses, 1 port.

[wonkipop]

they draw both ports on the dizzy diagrams @StarBear .

i think the one you used as a basis might have had a little distortion from wrinkles.
kind of ended up looking more oval and less like a cylinder tube on your drawing?
you did draw it in though on your repro.

[wonkipop]

I dont, sorry. I right click alot and dont recall them all...

Perhaps one/both of you can create the correct vacuum hose diagram for EC-A and EC-B cars?

too many mysteries yet mr. b (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

need some more cars to come up. as @StarBear says - the EC-A car.

yet to sight a 49 state car.
but parts book and sticker says they exist like you said.

[StarBear]

A thought- lots of members listing early 74s in the VIN database. Maybe contact a few with queries?

[wonkipop]

A thought- lots of members listing early 74s in the VIN database. Maybe contact a few with queries?

good idea (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

i might put up a separate thread in garage section that is - attention 74 1.8 owners and see if it gets any interest? people might see that, the other one was buried in van b's thread which had a different topic.

[wonkipop]

@StarBear

found this. maybe of interest.

don't know if anyone nailed down a date they moved vapor can in 73 from the frunk to the engine bay for 74 MY.


NOV 73 VIN 4743908482
karmann # = 4629626 = tues 13 nov 73
has frunk can.

your car is wed 28 nov 73
has engine bay can.

thats the k number and not the day the cans were installed.
but sometime in there.

they managed to build 1,278 cars between the two cars.
in 10 days. average of 127.8 cars a day.
the car i came across was car # 126 for the day.
its got a 6 in the k number instead of a 5
cranking them out.

the car appears to be an EC-B.
its got advance port connections.
california delivered.
haven't stumbled across another EC-A yet.

[StarBear]

Interesting. Good idea with the new thread; maybe in the Originality Forum?
The adventure continues! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

[wonkipop]

another good one i found digging back into sales archives.
maybe a bit over shined and over prepped, but a very intact car.
lots of interesting information aside from TB set up.

thursday 6 december 1973 build.

697 cars after @StarBear car.
a start of the day car - #7 off the line.
6 days between starbear car and this.
= roughly 116 cars per day production. pumping them out!

its an EC-B off the setup of vac line and throttle body type and tune up sticker.
pity dealer did not take a photo of emission sticker/engine tin stencil, took a photo of everything else! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) it was sold new in cincinatti. not a california delivery.
huge amount of detail, particularly with document file that came with car.








other firm information of interest to originality for restoration by 1.8 owners -
i'll post up next.

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby

free first service card.




i guess most people handed these in at 600 miles and never got them back from dealer?
not in my file for my car. this guy kept everything.

next. some sort of folder/book.
particular to cicincatti porsche dealer?
or is it something a fastidious and proud owner made himself?



typical problem and unusual problem.
vapor lock.
side decals failed/peeled - new ones had to be fitted.
usually the 74s had the drop out decals, owner might have changed it to the earlier style because he liked it better?

[wonkipop]

firm confirmation of plumbing to engine bay charcoal can.
another one exactly like wonki and starbear cars.
or is it?
plumbed up VW way, rather than porsche way?
in this car the can appears to be reversed in orientation from wonki car, but the hose layout is the same (with the S curve hose off the fan cowl).
so this one is plumbed porsche way?
my car is after this one, mine is a late jan build.
914 mysteries continue.
found quite a few of these confirming images re plumbing i've found trawling sales of very good condition original cars. this is the first one i have seen where the can is reversed in orientation (see the shape of the end of can). could have been taken out and put back in the other way around - or is evidence of a first installation set up by the factory - more questions. (if you put the can in this way, you would need a longer small hose to join the vapor line to get around to lhs of can. i did not change that hose in my car or alter the can). there are receipts in document files for all the usual work it takes to recommission a car dated 2020. this car sat for a long time somewhere in storage which explains its generally good condition. lots of fuel line work and injectors fuel tank etc done. so can could have come out and gone back in. i've never touched the can in mine.



further evidence of 74 1.8 engine bay hose colors.
i noticed that one line off the decel valve on my car was a very faded red or brown color. just one hose. along with green vacuum retard hose off the distributor.
all other hoses were mid to dark grey color.

this car shows clearly. one reddish brown hose off decel. green hose off dist.

original hoses from wonki car (bagged after replacement).
i left the green hose on the dist.

[wonkipop]

14 jan 74 car at top of page is exactly same as mine (late jan 74) for charcoal can plumbing and orientation.

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby

after all the info came in from members with 1.8s - and some searching through older BAT ads with lots of detail photos we turned up the following on engine tin number stamps.

by and large 4 numbers.

604, 605, 606, 607.

we have reliable original cars with 604.
these are EC-B (for all intents and purposes established as EPA/49 state).
these cars are 1.8s that came new without the console and gauge pack.

we have reliable original car with 605.
this is an EC-B. this car came with the console gauge pack from new.

(i always thought the 1.8s did not get a guage/console option like the 2.0s but turns out they did, StarBear got one).

we have a reliable original car with 606.
this is an EC-A (for all intents and purposes the california car since it has the CARB approval). this car was a base 1.8 from new with no gauges/console.

i found a detailed BAT ad with a well documented EC-A with 607.
documents show it came new with gauges and console.

we know from parts manual that EC-B came with different throttle body than EC-A.
EC-B definitely had two port throttle body and full distributor hook up.
it seems very likely that EC-A had single port throttle body and only one hose hookup to distributor.

from parts manual the only other difference i can find in 1.8s is provision for guage hookup with engine. the so called Taco Plate.

i think this is a possibility.

EC-B no guage/console = 604
EC-B guage/console = 605
EC-A no guage/console = 606
EC-A guage/console - 607.

we have a spread on these 600 series numbers from 11/73 to 06/74,
so they use them throughout 74 MY production run.

is support of this i found some material for type 1 engines for beetles.
these are stamped with M followed by three numbers.
those codes describe what the engine has in terms of specific carburettors or fuel injection. it meant the right engine came out of stock to be mated with the right fitted out body at the end of the production line.

i think a similar thing goes on with 914s when you look at the factory photos.
the virtually fully finished and fitted out bodies are mated with the suspension and drive train right at the end.

you want the correct engine going in the correct body.
and there are only 4 variables as far as i can tell.
they need to know this as the cars are not really being built in batches.
we have found EC-A and EC-B cars built only a few numbers apart on the line.

IO it turns out is for engines that failed initial inspection and had some rectification required. after rectification they were stamped in order and returned to the line.

there is one other number i found on a BAT advertised car.
it was d370 and the engine looked to be a EC-B.
a good guess might be a replacement engine under warranty?
or something like that.
when i get time to spare at odd moments i'll try and keep searching out these codes.
i have found a fair bit on the ones for type 1 engines.
but the type 4 stuff is not information floating around.

[JeffBowlsby]

@wonkipop

Wonki...Your research is exhaustive, appreciated and commendable. I need to wade through this in greater detail althought I have been distantly keeping tabs on it all along.

But one thing piques my interest...you identify 4 engine tin codes which are really two sets of two codes that you suggest indicate both with/without the center console and gauges as a prime variable. The EC-A and EC-B designations appear on the emissions sticker so obviously they pertain to emisions in some way. And I like your throttle body/vaccum line arrangement discoveries.

But the center console with its gauges was an optional equipment item that is plug N play and has nothing to do with emissions. All 1974 914s had the same chassis harness with the center console connections in the cabin floor, whether the car was equipped with the console or not. Seems odd that the optional console would be somehow related to the engine tin code.

Your thoughts?

[wonkipop]

its still a bit of a speculation.

its hard to get a real exhaustive sampling.

between members and what you could find on BAT from old ads i got about 30 reasonable cars on file.
the BAT is surprisingly one of the handiest resources - people take a lot of photos to sell the cars. and sometimes the fluke shots are in there to identify things.

the only way to really know is the VW archive.

i'm going to see if i can find the contact details for the director of the museum and archive. if i do i will write a letter and see if i can interest them in looking into it.
if i lived in germany i would just go and knock on their door and talk my way in.

it was a bit of fun to get this far with it.
thanks to you alerting us to the EC-A or EC-B thing.
didn't even know about that stuff until a few weeks ago.


its entirely possible what you suggest with the plug and play thing.
but its the only thing i can think of where you would want the engines coming from hamburg, already completed to have the right taco plate on.
they were building some cars to order for customers.
i was astonished to find out that some 1.8s came with the guages from the get go and it was not a dealer install item.

its all academic - only so if the numbers go according to my theory.
and its only a theory.

[Van B]

Strangely enough I have two distinct thoughts as I read this:
First, it’s so cool to see the deduction result in a solid theory on OEM coding.
Second, f-Ing VW and Porsche. Neither of them cared enough about this car to enshrine these differences for posterity. But now Porsche is so enthusiastic about claiming this car as their own…

[JeffBowlsby]

The center console /gauges were just an optional equipment M-code that could be added to any 914 in 1974. The oil temp sender and its cable was part of that M-code and was separate from emissions categorization on the emissions labels.

[StarBear]

@wonkipop

Wonki...Your research is exhaustive, appreciated and commendable. I need to wade through this in greater detail althought I have been distantly keeping tabs on it all along.

But one thing piques my interest...you identify 4 engine tin codes which are really two sets of two codes that you suggest indicate both with/without the center console and gauges as a prime variable. The EC-A and EC-B designations appear on the emissions sticker so obviously they pertain to emisions in some way. And I like your throttle body/vaccum line arrangement discoveries.

But the center console with its gauges was an optional equipment item that is plug N play and has nothing to do with emissions. All 1974 914s had the same chassis harness with the center console connections in the cabin floor, whether the car was equipped with the console or not. Seems odd that the optional console would be somehow related to the engine tin code.

Your thoughts?

Unless (?) the tins for the console/gauges cars were just a bit different, like an extra hole or slit for sensor/sender wires to the gauges. Thoughts?