1974 914 1.8, the mystery of the EC-A and EC-B Options

[wonkipop]

@wonkipop
@jeffbowlsby
Yep, my visor pins are chromed. My 74 1.8 (11/73 chassis, 5/74 completion) has quite a few leftover 73 parts, like seat upholstery; had never though about the pins.

all the evidence does point to your 73 MY observation.
most of the 74 2.0s made between august and late oct 73 seem to be essentially carrying on from 73 MY. though @JeffBowlsby would know more about that.

the changes that characterise the 74 MY start happening bit by bit after about the 3rd week of nov 73 of production of the 1.8. but it doesn't all happen at once. its a series of changes over time stretching from nov 73 through to may 74. bit by bit.

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby
@StarBear

Remember this label Jeff.
You had it on your website.

the elusive and enigmatic EC-B emissions label 49 states ONLY.
(From page 1 of this topic).



In the 80 odd examples I have collected on file all had Calif and USEPA approved labels whether EC-A (califonia) or EC-B (49 states). despite the EC-B engine being 49 states and the EC-A being california only.

they all looked like this. same as my car and starbears.




well.........the exceptional data finally turned up in another example with all the details.
its just come up for sale on BAT.
car is a bit rough under its exterior and the EFI is gone - but all engine labels and original tin are intact complete with emissions label.
its a little blurry but is visible in a blow up of one of the engine bay photos.
and you can see - USEPA only. same as your example from your website.





vin 4742919432
K number (VW production #) 2339522. wed 05 June 1974.
vin label says 06/74.
engine stamp number 605 checks out for an EC-B engine with console and gauges.
car has the orignal console and guages.
two hose tune up sticker on engine tin = EC-B emissions set up for distributor vacuum advance / retard.

conclusion - these labels went on right at the end of 74 production.
for approx. the last month in june 74.
i have examples right up to may 74 that have the more normally found sticker which says EC-A and EC-B are both USEPA and california compliant.

i don't have an example of an EC-A emission sticker for 06/74 but i am guessing it did not need a different one from the one it had through most of 74 production as anything California compliant was automatically USEPA compliant as it exceeded standards for the 49 states.........but you never know.

one more mystery of the L jets cracked.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[JeffBowlsby]

I am thankful you are a sleuth! Look what can be found with persistence.

[wonkipop]

I am thankful you are a sleuth! Look what can be found with persistence.

only took 3 years. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby

i've gone right through the examples on file of 74 1.8s to track the difference in engine bay back pads.


2 types of EBP (Engine bay pad).


type 1. referred to as Black Ripple (orange peel) surface.





type 2. referred to as Smooth Grey surface.





here is how they track through the production run of 74 1.8s from late oct 1973 through to june 1974.







VIN 4742918254 had its EBP removed. bit of a shame as it came between the two late entries for black ripple EPBs and might have provided confirming data.


-----------

According to this pattern @StarBear car should have a black ripple engine bay pad.
I don't have a photo on file of StarBears car's pad from the L jet research a couple of years ago. can you confirm what type of pad your car has Steve?

Also @Bwingate (new member here with an early 1.8) - suggestion from data is that your car should have a black ripple engine bay back pad. Can you confirm.

@JeffBowlsby . far as i can tell these black back pads only pop up in a batch of 1.8s produced very early in the production run during November 1973. does not appear to be in 2.0s produced between aug 73 and late oct 73.
the second time they appear is late in the production run in may 74. only a couple of examples have come to light on file. might affect some 2.0s very late in the 74MY.
don't think it would affect LE cars as they were all produced before May 74?


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby

The 49 State EC-B emissions label appears to be the only one revised in june 74 to exclude California emissions compliance.

I went through my files and i have an EC-A emissions label from a later car - the emissions label is as per earlier EC-A labels and states USEPA and California compliance.


revised 49 states label from VIN 4742919432, EC-B engine.





EC-A engine emissions label from VIN 4742920438. - 1000 cars (approx 2-3 weeks production later).

[friethmiller]

I have a 6/74 1.8L car. Unfortunately, I removed/replaced this sticker. This is the only picture I have of it. I probably saved the sticker somewhere but can seem to find it.

[wonkipop]

I have a 6/74 1.8L car. Unfortunately, I removed/replaced this sticker. This is the only picture I have of it. I probably saved the sticker somewhere but can seem to find it.

hey thats great @friethmiller .

I can tell enough from that sticker to see with the extent of lettering on the crucial lines that it says USEPA and California compliant.

If its an EC-B engine that could give us an indication of when the revised sticker kicked in.

Do you know if it was an EC-B engine. (unfortunately thats not legible on the sticker photo you have) ie 49 states car. if you know which state it was originally sold new its usually a reliable indicator. calif sale = EC-A 100%. 49 states sale = EC-B 99%.

if its non california, whats the Vin and K number?

[StarBear]

@wonkipop
@jeffbowlsby
Mine is the smooth gray type; original still in place.
Body DOT plate is 12/73; Karmann plate is 5/74.
If needed can provide photo and precise Karmann date.

[friethmiller]

I have a 6/74 1.8L car. Unfortunately, I removed/replaced this sticker. This is the only picture I have of it. I probably saved the sticker somewhere but can seem to find it.

hey thats great @friethmiller .

I can tell enough from that sticker to see with the extent of lettering on the crucial lines that it says USEPA and California compliant.

If its an EC-B engine that could give us an indication of when the revised sticker kicked in.

Do you know if it was an EC-B engine. (unfortunately thats not legible on the sticker photo you have) ie 49 states car. if you know which state it was originally sold new its usually a reliable indicator. calif sale = EC-A 100%. 49 states sale = EC-B 99%.

if its non california, whats the Vin and K number?

I haven't read all the post on this thread so I'm not exactly sure if it's a EC-B engine or not. Let me know how I can figure this out and I'll report back. No clue on the original purchase location. I do know that it was located in the Atlanta, GA area for many years. Unfortunately the FI system is long gone on this one but it still has the original 1.8L - now a 2375. Anyways, here's the vitals.

Vin: 4742920229 Engine: EC035789 Chassis: 2549551

Stickers are both new reproductions

.

[wonkipop]

thats a very magnificent looking 914 @friethmiller .
i see you are down in texas.
my memories are from the late 80s and 90s but man.......i loved texas.
my favourite part of the states by far and my favorite stateside peoples.
hoping to get back there one day and see the much further west part of texas this time, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

pretty hard to pick the difference between a EC-A and a EC-B.
all they did was hook up the advance side of the distributor in the Bs and unhook it in the As and plug up the throttle body port. literally.
and put a different emissions sticker on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
so there is no way to really tell if you dont have the original emissions sticker, original EFI or a sales receipt.
and.......it doesn't really matter. cause it doesn't make one bit of difference to enjoying your 914. its just some esoteric info we have been following up for a few years.

@JeffBowlsby had a mysterious emissions sticker in his collection for the 1.8s.
basically i could never turn up another example of it until a few days ago.
the gist of it all would seem to be that it took the EPA and/orCARB 7 months to catch up with VW/Porsche and order them to get their stickers right back in 1974. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
probably sent a very nasty letter to germany thats lying around in the factory archives somewhere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[wonkipop]

ps

@friethmiller

i reckon if your car was originally a 49 states car (EC-B) it would have had the "corrected" emission sticker given the VIN number. its later than the Vin for the recent one we just found.

and given eyeballing your original vin sticker (blurry as it is) seems to say it looks like the the full USEPA and California compliant text from the extent of text on lines - then my guess is your car is an EC-A. originally sold new in california and originally spent its time there. its a guess but based on evidence to date.

[wonkipop]

pps

love the star steelies. i'm a huge fan of them. have em on mine too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

EDIT
there is one other way you can tell what engine was in it - the three digit paint stencil number that was originally on engine tin. if you can remember what that was if it was still there before you did work on the engine and maybe/probably repainted tins.

if the engine was original then 604 or 605 would be an EC-B
and 606 or 607 would be EC-A (california). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[wonkipop]

@wonkipop
@jeffbowlsby
Mine is the smooth gray type; original still in place.
Body DOT plate is 12/73; Karmann plate is 5/74.
If needed can provide photo and precise Karmann date.

details i have on file for your car are as follows steve.

vin------09760
date 11/73.
from vin sticker photo you had.

k plate # = 4839578 = wed 28 nov 1973.

where is the k plate 5/74 date coming from?

still its interesting it has the smooth grey engine insul pad.
i'll double check that one i have listed after your vin as a black ripple back pad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[friethmiller]

pps

love the star steelies. i'm a huge fan of them. have em on mine too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

EDIT
there is one other way you can tell what engine was in it - the three digit paint stencil number that was originally on engine tin. if you can remember what that was if it was still there before you did work on the engine and maybe/probably repainted tins.

if the engine was original then 604 or 605 would be an EC-B
and 606 or 607 would be EC-A (california). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Thanks! I love the steelies too. My tins numbers were not legible. Here’s the best photo I have prior to the rebuild.

[wonkipop]

pps

love the star steelies. i'm a huge fan of them. have em on mine too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

EDIT
there is one other way you can tell what engine was in it - the three digit paint stencil number that was originally on engine tin. if you can remember what that was if it was still there before you did work on the engine and maybe/probably repainted tins.

if the engine was original then 604 or 605 would be an EC-B
and 606 or 607 would be EC-A (california). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Thanks! I love the steelies too. My tins numbers were not legible. Here’s the best photo I have prior to the rebuild.

sometimes the number was on the rhs side tin.
guess it depended on whether hans or heinrich had a hangover the day they had the potatoe stamp out.

[StarBear]

@wonkipop
@jeffbowlsby
Mine is the smooth gray type; original still in place.
Body DOT plate is 12/73; Karmann plate is 5/74.
If needed can provide photo and precise Karmann date.

details i have on file for your car are as follows steve.

vin------09760
date 11/73.
from vin sticker photo you had.

k plate # = 4839578 = wed 28 nov 1973.

where is the k plate 5/74 date coming from?

still its interesting it has the smooth grey engine insul pad.
i'll double check that one i have listed after your vin as a black ripple back pad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

You are correct. My bad. Don’t know what I was recalling. Thanks!
Back pad definitely not ripple. Because it has appearance group?

[StarBear]

My backpad. Original.

[wonkipop]

@wonkipop
@jeffbowlsby
Mine is the smooth gray type; original still in place.
Body DOT plate is 12/73; Karmann plate is 5/74.
If needed can provide photo and precise Karmann date.

details i have on file for your car are as follows steve.

vin------09760
date 11/73.
from vin sticker photo you had.

k plate # = 4839578 = wed 28 nov 1973.

where is the k plate 5/74 date coming from?

still its interesting it has the smooth grey engine insul pad.
i'll double check that one i have listed after your vin as a black ripple back pad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

You are correct. My bad. Don’t know what I was recalling. Thanks!
Back pad definitely not ripple. Because it has appearance group?

no its not an appearance group thing.
the examples suggest its a production line cluster.
two of them are only 40 cars apart (see the first page of the spread sheets, the ones that are slightly earlier than yours.

no doubt about yours though - def smooth grey.

in the end the sample i have whilst it does broadly speaking sample every month is but a drop in the ocean of the thousands produced.
i think my sample is suggestive of something but you would need a lot more examples to get to the bottom of it, it could even be that certain weeks on the production line got supplied with the black ripple type. definitely the grey ones are by far the more common type. several of the examples of the black ripple type seem entirely trustworthy and are original cars. i would certainly trust the one in the porsche museum i feel that is a very original car.

later on (see last page of spreadsheet) i have two examples that are literally the car after the other. and one has the black ripple. but the one that immediately precedes it off the production line had had its pad removed. that would have been very compelling to have but unfortunately........thwarted. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

its possible that the one after yours on the spreadsheet is not a trustworthy black ripple pad car.
its been restored. the pad may or may not be original to the car.
so yours might be after the point where they were installing black ripple pads and were installing smooth grey again. very hard to be 100% definitive on the car listed after you.
the ones before you seem very definitive though.

[wonkipop]

@StarBear

more 74 minutiae?
i recently collected some BAT data on 1.8
( a new member @Bwingate now has the car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )
i noticed this. not something you normally pick re details. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)



can't tell if its my imagination or i am seeing what i think is there.
metal (chrome?) visor pins.
its a 11/73 car.

my car has black plastic visor pins. is a 01/74 build.
you have a 11/73 car @StarBear . what are the pins on yours.

@JeffBowlsby ?

@StarBear @JeffBowlsby

just got some info from member Artfrombama.
he has a very original intact 1.8. 12/73.
its between your car StarBear and VanB's car. build date is 6th Dec 73.

it has the black plastic pins for the sun visors.

additionally it still has its original windscreen. its a SIGLA.
same as your car StarBear and Van's car.
so they were batching SIGLA Screens for sure during late Nov and into Dec 73 before they went back to using kinonglas screens.