Another 914-6 GT Tribute Project Options

[brant]

I still think a roll bar in a street legal car is dangerous

Why would someone put themselves into a “make re dangerous vehicle?”

Unless your wearing your helmet on your coffee run

[mepstein]

I still think a roll bar in a street legal car is dangerous

Why would someone put themselves into a “make re dangerous vehicle?”

Unless your wearing your helmet on your coffee run

I don’t have the paper handy but it was proven to be very dangerous in an accident. There’s a good reason why every interior surface is padded. Just take a look at an in cockpit video of a car accident. People flail around a lot more than you think.

[blabla914]

Tom,

Excited to see how this build turns out.

If people want a little preview of what's to come, the RSR in Tom's signature was featured in Excellence in December of 2006. Armando also has a some nice pictures of his 911 on PBase.

Kelly

[ibmiked]

Agreed, a roll bar is dangerous without a helmet. So too though is driving a 50 year old car that was designed and built before crumple zones and high strength steel in a world of 6,000lb SUVs driven by people whose attention is partially focused on their phones. We all accept a certain amount of risk when enjoying our cars.

[mepstein]

Agreed, a roll bar is dangerous without a helmet. So too though is driving a 50 year old car that was designed and built before crumple zones and high strength steel in a world of 6,000lb SUVs driven by people whose attention is partially focused on their phones. We all accept a certain amount of risk when enjoying our cars.

914’s do have built in crumple zones. Why add something that’s proven to injure or kill you in an accident?

[ibmiked]

Agreed, a roll bar is dangerous without a helmet. So too though is driving a 50 year old car that was designed and built before crumple zones and high strength steel in a world of 6,000lb SUVs driven by people whose attention is partially focused on their phones. We all accept a certain amount of risk when enjoying our cars.

914’s do have built in crumple zones. Why add something that’s proven to injure or kill you in an accident?

Why ride a motorcycle? Or a bicycle on a public road? This kind of talk is silly.

[davehg]

I modded my roll bar in a similar fashion to the above pix, and during a discussion with the race shop that welded it, decided I would add roll bar pads in the areas around my head and neck. It may not look pretty, but I’ve seen what a TBI injury can do to a family, and it’s not worth the result of having my pretty shiny roll bar.

To each their own. Now back on the topic - fun project to follow. I’ve completed my 3.2 and nearly done with my 2.7 twin plug. Ben’s tank and heat exchangers and muffler are in my 2.7 and his sport GT muffler is in my 3.2. Lots of great help here on the forum, and shout out for Rich Johnston’s motor mount and throttle assembly, Eric at PMB, and Tangerine Racing’s shift rod kit, fuel lines, and brake lines, and folks like Bruce Stone and Rich at 914werke who have provided odds and sods parts.

And of course the incomparable Bernie Buschen who has thoughtfully and methodically built both engines and assembly - what a real mensch.

[brant]

[/quote]

Why ride a motorcycle? Or a bicycle on a public road? This kind of talk is silly.
[/quote]


Nope
A brain injury is not silly
On a motorcycle you should also wear a helmet
Just like a car with a roll cage

Not silly
Actually smart

[ClayPerrine]

[quote name='brant' date='Apr 15 2022, 07:43 AM' post='2995390']
[/quote]

Why ride a motorcycle? Or a bicycle on a public road? This kind of talk is silly.
[/quote]


Nope
A brain injury is not silly
On a motorcycle you should also wear a helmet
Just like a car with a roll cage

Not silly
Actually smart
[/quote]
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

You are less likely to be hurt in an accident when not wearing a seat belt than you are getting into an accident on a motorcycle while not wearing a helmet, but we still have mandatory seat belt laws for cars. And you are way less likely to be hurt at an Autocross than you are when riding a motorcycle on the street. But we still wear helmets when running in an Autocross.

Personally I think the people who get on a motorcycle in shorts, a wife beater t-shirt, flip flops, and sunglasses are stupid. And we as the general public have to support their long term medical care when they get squished by an 18 wheeler on the highway and somehow manage to live through it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

My $.02.... To ride a motorcycle without a helmet should require you to sign a waiver stating that you agree that you or your family will pay all medical costs resulting from injuries that could have been prevented by wearing a helmet.


Sorry.. this is one of my pet peeves. In Texas it is perfectly legal to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, but if you don't put your seat belt on in a car, you get a ticket. That is hypocrisy of the stupidest level. I am a seatbelt fanatic. They save lives. And when I did ride a motorcycle on the street, I wore a helmet. But I think they should either repeal the seatbelt law or re-instate the mandatory helmet law.

I will get off my soap box now.

Clay

[ibmiked]

Getting on a motorcycle or bicycle, even with a helmet, is always going to be a less safe choice than a car when it comes to being in an accident. That is an undeniable fact that I think we can all agree on. And yet every day millions of people choose to ride on public roads. They make a risk/reward choice and the pleasure they derive from something is strong enough that they are willing to accept the risk.

I think it’s safe to say that no one here has only their 914 as transportation. If your other car was built in the last 30 years, it has airbags which make it dramatically safer than our old Porsches. And yet, we all accept the fact that we are choosing a less safe alternative when we drive them, because of the joy we get. Everyone’s threshold is different and no one is denying that a roll bar is less safe.

[VegasRacer]

A car with a roll bar is indeed dangerous.
Several times I have cut myself on one of the zip-ties used to hold the roll bar padding in place.

[lesorubcheek]

You are less likely to be hurt in an accident when not wearing a seat belt than you are getting into an accident on a motorcycle while not wearing a helmet, but we still have mandatory seat belt laws for cars. And you are way less likely to be hurt at an Autocross than you are when riding a motorcycle on the street. But we still wear helmets when running in an Autocross.

Personally I think the people who get on a motorcycle in shorts, a wife beater t-shirt, flip flops, and sunglasses are stupid. And we as the general public have to support their long term medical care when they get squished by an 18 wheeler on the highway and somehow manage to live through it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

My $.02.... To ride a motorcycle without a helmet should require you to sign a waiver stating that you agree that you or your family will pay all medical costs resulting from injuries that could have been prevented by wearing a helmet.


Sorry.. this is one of my pet peeves. In Texas it is perfectly legal to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, but if you don't put your seat belt on in a car, you get a ticket. That is hypocrisy of the stupidest level. I am a seatbelt fanatic. They save lives. And when I did ride a motorcycle on the street, I wore a helmet. But I think they should either repeal the seatbelt law or re-instate the mandatory helmet law.

I will get off my soap box now.

Clay

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Very well said Clay. In my opinion you nailed it.

Dan

[bahnzai]

Hey guys, you know we are kinda walking all over the OP Tom’s 914-6 GT Tribute Project thread here…(me included now)
Good lively discussion, but he may need some space for some project pictures:)

[Tom1394racing]

Time for an update on my GT project. After a long delay while waiting to clear garage space, I sold my 1970 911E restoration and moved the 914 from the basement to the garage and onto my lift. The car is now stripped to a bare shell. After consulting with Ken (body shop manager & co-owner) at Auto Associates, we have decided to send the shell out to be dipped, stripped and E-coated prior to starting the chassis restoration at Auto Associates.

Ken recommended a shop in Livonia, MI that does a multi step process consisting of:

1. Hot tank cleaning dip
2. Pressure wash to remove all dirt, gunk and paint
3. Acid dip to dissolve all rust
4. Neutralizing dip to stop the acid process
5. Epoxy primer for rust protection

The hot tank cleaning dip will dissolve anything that is not steel on the shell. This would include the longitudinal heater tubes. So we have decided to cut out the inner longs prior to the dipping and then replace the heater tubes and the longs as part of the chassis restoration. This should give us a chassis that is completely devoid of any rust and is also protected against any further rusting.

This will require an 11 hour one way drive from my home in CT to the shop in MI. I have searched and tried to locate a shop closer to my home that offers the cleaning, de-rusting and E-coating but have not located one. If anyone knows of a shop within a 6 hour radius of Hartford, CT that offers this process, I would be interested in checking them out.

[Cairo94507]

As long as that trip will be, it will be well worth it once you begin chassis work, metal work, etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mepstein]

There’s a chemical strip shop west of Harrisburg PA. 3S chemicals llc. They quoted me ~ 3k for my 912. 3-6 month wait and 1k deposit. I ended up shipping the car to - pro strip Indy in Indianapolis IA. They had a good rep from people I know and I was very happy with their service. They charged $2300 and took 2 weeks once they received it. The other reason I sent it there is because there is a company near by that e-coats the chassis in a tank. Both companies have been great to deal with and only take money when the job is done.

If you chemically strip a chassis in a tank, I believe you need to e-coat it in a tank. The chemical strip removes everything including every bit of metal protection in between the seams and in all the hollow chambers. There’s no way to coat the metal between the seams unless you dip it. Normal paint is too thick. Cavity wax will coat the cavities but only a thin liquid like they use for e-coat will actually get between all the seams. At least this is what I have read, researched, experienced first hand on other cars and have decided is the right process. I also believe the past problems with chemical dip “leaking out of the seams” month later is not actually chemical leaking but moisture attacking the bare metal and rusting it. Chemically stripped metal starts rusting immediately, even neutralized, because it’s bare metal. The only way to protect it is to dip it again to get to all the metal that is raw.

So to get back to my car, the 912 is at the Ecoat place and should be done by the end of the week. It’s a 12 step process to clean the metal of all the flash rust and then e-coat. The chem dip exposed some additional corrosion but we’ll fix it when it gets home. The e-coat process is ~$3,500 and it was $900 each way to ship and $500 to ship between shops. Not cheap at all but I want a solid car that I can trust not to have issues down the road. I wouldn’t have minded trailering it out but having to make a second trip to pick up means I really wouldn’t have saved any money when all was done. Plus that’s a lot of time to make two up and back trips.

The thing that was in my favor on the early 912 is it has steel heater tubes. After 67/68, Porsche moved to the paper tubes.

[mepstein]

Pics so far

[Freezin 914]

Tom, Like most people here, I can’t wait until next update, keep them coming (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[wonkipop]

[quote name='ClayPerrine' date='Apr 15 2022, 09:23 AM' post='2995420']
[quote name='brant' date='Apr 15 2022, 07:43 AM' post='2995390']
[/quote]

Why ride a motorcycle? Or a bicycle on a public road? This kind of talk is silly.
[/quote]


Nope
A brain injury is not silly
On a motorcycle you should also wear a helmet
Just like a car with a roll cage

Not silly
Actually smart
[/quote]
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

You are less likely to be hurt in an accident when not wearing a seat belt than you are getting into an accident on a motorcycle while not wearing a helmet, but we still have mandatory seat belt laws for cars. And you are way less likely to be hurt at an Autocross than you are when riding a motorcycle on the street. But we still wear helmets when running in an Autocross.

Personally I think the people who get on a motorcycle in shorts, a wife beater t-shirt, flip flops, and sunglasses are stupid. And we as the general public have to support their long term medical care when they get squished by an 18 wheeler on the highway and somehow manage to live through it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

My $.02.... To ride a motorcycle without a helmet should require you to sign a waiver stating that you agree that you or your family will pay all medical costs resulting from injuries that could have been prevented by wearing a helmet.


Sorry.. this is one of my pet peeves. In Texas it is perfectly legal to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, but if you don't put your seat belt on in a car, you get a ticket. That is hypocrisy of the stupidest level. I am a seatbelt fanatic. They save lives. And when I did ride a motorcycle on the street, I wore a helmet. But I think they should either repeal the seatbelt law or re-instate the mandatory helmet law.

I will get off my soap box now.

Clay
[/quote]

yep
my business partner has been riding motorcycles for 40 years.
high powered high end italian bikes.
never gets on without full leathers, boots and full face.
he has hit the deck several times. and has always gotten up intact!

whenever i ride around in the car with him he is always commenting on the delicate asian university students getting about on motor scooters around here, in sandles, t shirts and non full face helmets. his standard remark, she might look pretty now, but she isn't going to be attractive with only half a jaw. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

i can still remember my time in chicago. guys on big harleys and gold wings would thunder past with no helmet and wearing a t shirt. on the interstate.
used to blow my mind. not in a good way.

seat belts are not even debated in australia. its been mandatory to have them and to have them on since the 1960s. no big deal. but each to his own i guess. i am surprised to hear its law in texas as i can still recall all the hoo haa in the USA in the late 80s over compulsory seat belt laws. as far as i can remember you guys did not have those laws back then. i remember the cars with those wacko auto seat belts that ran on tracks around the heads of the doors. i laughed every time i got in a car with those things.


you need to pad cages inside a car. even on the track. at least down here. no such thing as an unpadded roll cage in this neck of the woods. street or track.

[Cairo94507]

@mepstein - Mark, I love that you are preparing that chassis to last forever. The end result will be a stunning example that will age perfectly. A bit of cash up front, but well worth all the effort and expense in my opinion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Cheers, Michael