Another 914-6 GT Tribute Project Options

[mepstein]

@mepstein - Mark, I love that you are preparing that chassis to last forever. The end result will be a stunning example that will age perfectly. A bit of cash up front, but well worth all the effort and expense in my opinion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Cheers, Michael

It wouldn’t be happening if Jared Mcginness hadn’t taken over the metalwork. It needed a lot and Jared dove in and made it a solid car again. It will need some touch ups now that the chemicals uncovered some more corrosion but all expected and will be delt with.

A pretty good f-up on my part was having Jared do the lead work (there’s a good amount on these old cars) before the chemical dip. Now I know the dip removes lead. I just did it that way to give Jared more practice- LOL!
There’s a fair amount of lead on these cars that can’t be replaced with body plastic. We tried it at the old shop and it just cracked. Jared stepped up and learned how to fill with lead (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Tom1394racing]

There’s a chemical strip shop west of Harrisburg PA. 3S chemicals llc. They quoted me ~ 3k for my 912. 3-6 month wait and 1k deposit. I ended up shipping the car to - pro strip Indy in Indianapolis IA. They had a good rep from people I know and I was very happy with their service. They charged $2300 and took 2 weeks once they received it. The other reason I sent it there is because there is a company near by that e-coats the chassis in a tank. Both companies have been great to deal with and only take money when the job is done.

If you chemically strip a chassis in a tank, I believe you need to e-coat it in a tank. The chemical strip removes everything including every bit of metal protection in between the seams and in all the hollow chambers. There’s no way to coat the metal between the seams unless you dip it. Normal paint is too thick. Cavity wax will coat the cavities but only a thin liquid like they use for e-coat will actually get between all the seams. At least this is what I have read, researched, experienced first hand on other cars and have decided is the right process. I also believe the past problems with chemical dip “leaking out of the seams” month later is not actually chemical leaking but moisture attacking the bare metal and rusting it. Chemically stripped metal starts rusting immediately, even neutralized, because it’s bare metal. The only way to protect it is to dip it again to get to all the metal that is raw.

So to get back to my car, the 912 is at the Ecoat place and should be done by the end of the week. It’s a 12 step process to clean the metal of all the flash rust and then e-coat. The chem dip exposed some additional corrosion but we’ll fix it when it gets home. The e-coat process is ~$3,500 and it was $900 each way to ship and $500 to ship between shops. Not cheap at all but I want a solid car that I can trust not to have issues down the road. I wouldn’t have minded trailering it out but having to make a second trip to pick up means I really wouldn’t have saved any money when all was done. Plus that’s a lot of time to make two up and back trips.

The thing that was in my favor on the early 912 is it has steel heater tubes. After 67/68, Porsche moved to the paper tubes.

Hey Mark

Thanks for the info on your choices for chemical stripping and E-coating. The shop I am considering in MI quoted me $3600 for hot tank dip/pressure wash/acid dip/neutralizing dip/e-coat dip. They do it all in house. Seems like the best choice for me especially when they are recommended by the shop that will be doing my chassis and paint work. 11 hours will be a long drive to make four times but I think it will be cheaper than shipping.

[mepstein]

Just got done e-coat

[TJB/914]

Just got done e-coat

M
Outstanding (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
Tom

[Cairo94507]

That is really cool Mark. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[rgalla9146]

Just got done e-coat

That's beautiful Mark. Absolutely the right way to go.
Structural work and repair has to be done before ?
How is bodywork done from this point forward without damaging the e-coat ?
The body looks like the current OEM replacement panels for 356s and 911s. Brand new.

[mepstein]

Just got done e-coat

That's beautiful Mark. Absolutely the right way to go.
Structural work and repair has to be done before ?
How is bodywork done from this point forward without damaging the e-coat ?
The body looks like the current OEM replacement panels for 356s and 911s. Brand new.

The e-coat is really just primer that’s thin enough to flow into the seams (helped along by an electrostatic charge, like wet powder coat) and spots that a normal sprayed on primer wouldn’t get to. The very best way to handle chemical dip and e-coat is to dip, do metalwork dip again and then e-coat. But that’s two trips to the chem dip and an extra $5k. I have some touch ups to do. There was at least one spot on a door with holes where someone used a slide hammer. I also need to have some spots leaded in like the original. I actually had the lead done but unknown to me, it dissolves in the Chen dip. Learned a lesson on that. So I did not really care that the surface coating will get damaged. It’s doing its job below the surface. The chassis will probably sit for a while while I finish d a painter and save up to pay for it.

[dlee6204]

Just got done e-coat

Mind sharing the business that did the E-coat?

[mepstein]

Just got done e-coat

Mind sharing the business that did the E-coat?

I used pro strip Indy for the chemical dip and they referred me to a business that they worked with and the Porsche shop where I used to work has used. I don’t know the name of the business, I just talk to the owner. If you want his name, pm me. Both shops do the job and then take payment. Some of the shops that I felt uneasy about wanted half up front and had waits up to 6+ months. These guys each took a week or two. It’s not cheap. Plan on spending around 8k by the time you pay to ship the car around. This chassis was pretty corroded inside and out and I felt this was the only way to have a solid, corrosion free chassis going forward.

[mb911]

Just got done e-coat

Mind sharing the business that did the E-coat?

I used pro strip Indy for the chemical dip and they referred me to a business that they worked with and the Porsche shop where I used to work has used. I don’t know the name of the business, I just talk to the owner. If you want his name, pm me. Both shops do the job and then take payment. Some of the shops that I felt uneasy about wanted half up front and had waits up to 6+ months. These guys each took a week or two. It’s not cheap. Plan on spending around 8k by the time you pay to ship the car around. This chassis was pretty corroded inside and out and I felt this was the only way to have a solid, corrosion free chassis going forward.

For 8 k that’s a great deal. I wish I had a chassis I could send out for that process. Well maybe I do. Hmm I have a 74 that could use this setup.

[mepstein]

Just got done e-coat

Mind sharing the business that did the E-coat?

I used pro strip Indy for the chemical dip and they referred me to a business that they worked with and the Porsche shop where I used to work has used. I don’t know the name of the business, I just talk to the owner. If you want his name, pm me. Both shops do the job and then take payment. Some of the shops that I felt uneasy about wanted half up front and had waits up to 6+ months. These guys each took a week or two. It’s not cheap. Plan on spending around 8k by the time you pay to ship the car around. This chassis was pretty corroded inside and out and I felt this was the only way to have a solid, corrosion free chassis going forward.

For 8 k that’s a great deal. I wish I had a chassis I could send out for that process. Well maybe I do. Hmm I have a 74 that could use this setup.

It would be a lot less for someone in the mid west who can drop off and pick up. Closer to 6k. It just didn’t make sense for me to do the drive, stay over and drive home - 2X. That’s four 10 hour days of driving to save a couple hundred dollars.

[r_towle]

What happened to the guy building a GT tribute 914?
I got to “I’m dipping it”
I’m at that decision, so please update the choice, Heater tube solution…and how things are going with the 914 please.

Rich

[Tom1394racing]

The shell has been stripped and mounted on a custom cart for transport. The car will go next to Auto Associates where the inner longs will be removed along with the Al heater tubes. In addition, they will install longitudinal braces. Then the shell will be shipped to International Paint Stripping in Romulus, MI. They are the closest shop that does the Hot Tank/Acid/E-Coat Dipping all under one roof. Once the dipping has been completed the car will go back to Auto Associates for the chassis restoration and GT conversion.

[Lg914]

[quote name='Tom1394racing' post='3038974' date='Nov 1 2022, 01:14 PM']
Time for an update on my GT project. After a long delay while waiting to clear garage space, I sold my 1970 911E restoration and moved the 914 from the basement to the garage and onto my lift. The car is now stripped to a bare shell. After consulting with Ken (body shop manager & co-owner) at Auto Associates, we have decided to send the shell out to be dipped, stripped and E-coated prior to starting the chassis restoration at Auto Associates.

Ken recommended a shop in Livonia, MI that does a multi step process consisting of:

1. Hot tank cleaning dip
2. Pressure wash to remove all dirt, gunk and paint
3. Acid dip to dissolve all rust
4. Neutralizing dip to stop the acid process
5. Epoxy primer for rust protection

Be sure to let us know how it goes. I am very interested in the process.
Good luck.

[Tom1394racing]

Since my last posting, the external longs were opened up and the heater tubes removed. Stiffening diagonals were also installed and the car was shipped to Livonia, MI for the triple dip process.

[Tom1394racing]

Inner longs don't look too bad and the heater tubes should be reusable.

[-JR-]

Time for an update on my GT project. After a long delay while waiting to clear garage space, I sold my 1970 911E restoration and moved the 914 from the basement to the garage and onto my lift. The car is now stripped to a bare shell. After consulting with Ken (body shop manager & co-owner) at Auto Associates, we have decided to send the shell out to be dipped, stripped and E-coated prior to starting the chassis restoration at Auto Associates.

Ken recommended a shop in Livonia, MI that does a multi step process consisting of:

1. Hot tank cleaning dip
2. Pressure wash to remove all dirt, gunk and paint
3. Acid dip to dissolve all rust
4. Neutralizing dip to stop the acid process
5. Epoxy primer for rust protection

The hot tank cleaning dip will dissolve anything that is not steel on the shell. This would include the longitudinal heater tubes. So we have decided to cut out the inner longs prior to the dipping and then replace the heater tubes and the longs as part of the chassis restoration. This should give us a chassis that is completely devoid of any rust and is also protected against any further rusting.

It's too bad I can't get service like that around Vancouver BC. I was quoted $17,000 for the strip job alone. There doesn't even seem to be any shops left doing chassis sized media blasting here either. Getting a chassis across the US boarder is a whole-nother issue too and don't need to get black listed as I have a lot of work states side.

I'm doing the next best, I figure. I'm going to muriatic acid treat it at home. Setting up sprayers and wands to get into those tough spots between panel and through the longs. After that's done I'll bust out my water blaster system to strip the exterior panels to uncover any other creative body work that might be lurking. Still need to figure out a spray system to get epoxy primer back into those places once done.

[TJB/914]

Inner longs don't look too bad and the heater tubes should be reusable.

Tom,
Reaching out if you need someone to do a looksee here in Michigan.
Born & raised in Romulus/Livonia & know about the shop.
Just wondering, so PM me if interested.
Tom 914er Michigan

[mepstein]

Have to wait and see what it looks like after the dip. Sometimes it's just light corrosion, sometimes it's swiss cheese.

[gereed75]

JR, not sure what you are hoping to accomplish spraying muriatic acid (HCl) on your car. It will not strip paint or any other typical automotive coating. It could remove rust but it will most likely cause more damage than it will prevent or remove. It is also a very corrosive material to healthy steel not to mention living tissue.

Actually the whole term " acid stripping" is a bad misnomer. Immersion paint striping is actually done in alkaline solutions, not acidic ones.

Most rust removers are based on phosphoric acid. It is much less aggressive on clean steel (and human tissue), has some preference for attack on iron oxide and leaves a phosphate coating on clean steel that provides some flash rust protection and enhances paint adhesion. It does not remove coatings including oils and greases.

Not a chemist (maybe you are) but have a lot of real world experience using organic acids and metals and.... I have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express.