VW/Audi/ Porsche Cargo ship blaze, Crew has been rescued / Ship + cargo loss Options

[Big Len]

Location is near the Azores off the coast of Portugal. They are planning on towing in back in. Imagine that cost.

[beech4rd]

Location is near the Azores off the coast of Portugal. They are planning on towing in back in. Imagine that cost.

The Azores are roughly one third of the distance between Portugal and Boston. Not very big islands and probably have no port equipped to handle such a disaster. The ship will have to be towed back to Europe if it's salvageable.

[wonkipop]

slightly OT but related.

did some consultancy work on an apartment building here before covid hit.
a car stacker in the basement was being proposed to compact parking efficiently.
they are becoming more common in bigger buildings on tight sites.

i brought up potential lithium battery fires.
shoulders got shrugged.
fire engineers said impossible to stop.
just close the fire doors and turn the drenchers on.
conventional fire suppressing does not work.

when its out go in and clean up the aftermath.

be a very expensive job going into a car stacker basement and cutting everything out and pulling it out in pieces. access not exactly easy for cranes etc.

ship would be a nightmare. depending on how hot the fire had been.

my advice to owners of even conventional homes would be think twice about a wall battery pack inside a building. never put one in your house. think carefully even about an outbuilding or shed if you keep anything else in there you value. seperate battery shelter is way to go if possible or in fire proof enclosure. the batteries burn hot though.

and if i owned an EV and probably will have to one day, it parks in the driveway.

EDIT
not that i am jumping to conclusions on this ship fire........but its the second big one now.

[wonkipop]

aftermath.
won't be anything salvaged off this baby.
not even the ship?

captain has reported the fire got out of control due to batteries exploding in one car after another. source of fire is unknown.

[Van B]

Those burned out sides, yeah, that was ship steel.

Regarding the earlier discussion about the ship not being full because of how high in the water it sits, I can attest that it was likely full. I’ve boated behind one of those Wallenius ships as it cruised down the Chesapeake Bay and it was mind boggling how huge they are. From the rear I could see the decks of cars and I couldn’t even begin to estimate the number.

[mate914]

It reminds me just how much the elitist want every gas car gone. So you can have EV fires in your house. I know they never think that far ahead, or do they? Build back better sound familiar?
Matt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

[Shivers]

It reminds me just how much the elitist want every gas car gone. So you can have EV fires in your house. I know they never think that far ahead, or do they? Build back better sound familiar?
Matt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

Hydrogen fuel cells produce electricity by combining hydrogen and oxygen atoms from water. The hydrogen reacts with oxygen across an electrochemical cell similar to that of a battery to produce electricity, water, and small amounts of heat. If Hollywood thought a head just a bit, they'd realize that poison heavy metal fires are not the way of the future. If they put some of that money towards a system that gives you energy, and the by-product is more fuel, that just might work. But that makes way too much sense so sorry I mentioned it.

[Van B]

It reminds me just how much the elitist want every gas car gone. So you can have EV fires in your house. I know they never think that far ahead, or do they? Build back better sound familiar?
Matt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

Hydrogen fuel cells produce electricity by combining hydrogen and oxygen atoms from water. The hydrogen reacts with oxygen across an electrochemical cell similar to that of a battery to produce electricity, water, and small amounts of heat. If Hollywood thought a head just a bit, they'd realize that poison heavy metal fires are not the way of the future. If they put some of that money towards a system that gives you energy, and the by-product is more fuel, that just might work. But that makes way too much sense so sorry I mentioned it.

Anyone want to guess what country owns more than 50% of the world’s lithium production?

[Shivers]

It reminds me just how much the elitist want every gas car gone. So you can have EV fires in your house. I know they never think that far ahead, or do they? Build back better sound familiar?
Matt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

Hydrogen fuel cells produce electricity by combining hydrogen and oxygen atoms from water. The hydrogen reacts with oxygen across an electrochemical cell similar to that of a battery to produce electricity, water, and small amounts of heat. If Hollywood thought a head just a bit, they'd realize that poison heavy metal fires are not the way of the future. If they put some of that money towards a system that gives you energy, and the by-product is more fuel, that just might work. But that makes way too much sense so sorry I mentioned it.

Anyone want to guess what country owns more than 50% of the world’s lithium production?

I know this one...Lithuania! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Van B]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) You’re such a troll!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)

[914sgofast2]

It reminds me just how much the elitist want every gas car gone. So you can have EV fires in your house. I know they never think that far ahead, or do they? Build back better sound familiar?
Matt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

Hydrogen fuel cells produce electricity by combining hydrogen and oxygen atoms from water. The hydrogen reacts with oxygen across an electrochemical cell similar to that of a battery to produce electricity, water, and small amounts of heat. If Hollywood thought a head just a bit, they'd realize that poison heavy metal fires are not the way of the future. If they put some of that money towards a system that gives you energy, and the by-product is more fuel, that just might work. But that makes way too much sense so sorry I mentioned it.

Anyone want to guess what country owns more than 50% of the world’s lithium production?

Easy, China, followed by Tesla!

[Craigers17]

Hydrogen fuel cells produce electricity by combining hydrogen and oxygen atoms from water. The hydrogen reacts with oxygen across an electrochemical cell similar to that of a battery to produce electricity, water, and small amounts of heat. If Hollywood thought a head just a bit, they'd realize that poison heavy metal fires are not the way of the future. If they put some of that money towards a system that gives you energy, and the by-product is more fuel, that just might work. But that makes way too much sense so sorry I mentioned it.
[/quote]

Anyone want to guess what country owns more than 50% of the world’s lithium production?


I think the correct answer to this question is nobody, but Australia is damn close, followed by Chile.....of course that's not the most fun answer.

[wonkipop]

It reminds me just how much the elitist want every gas car gone. So you can have EV fires in your house. I know they never think that far ahead, or do they? Build back better sound familiar?
Matt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

Hydrogen fuel cells produce electricity by combining hydrogen and oxygen atoms from water. The hydrogen reacts with oxygen across an electrochemical cell similar to that of a battery to produce electricity, water, and small amounts of heat. If Hollywood thought a head just a bit, they'd realize that poison heavy metal fires are not the way of the future. If they put some of that money towards a system that gives you energy, and the by-product is more fuel, that just might work. But that makes way too much sense so sorry I mentioned it.

thats one way to do it. the other way is to burn the hydrogen in a combustion engine.
they don't produce CO and CO2 but they do produce NOx emissions - mostly its H2O comes out the tailpipe but oxygen etc in the combustion chamber leads to the nitrogen bits (photochemical smog), you run the engine under constant load and revs as a generator to power an electrical motor. rotary engines are ideal for this as all their particular problems with emissions v fuel economy are solved by running at steady revs and load. its basically a hybrid that does not produced CO2 (the bug bear greenhouse gas). this set up may be ideally suited to heavy trucks and long distance haulage.
ie australia (or the USA?). a cat will take care of the NOx.

but..........hydrogen is way more explosive than gasoline or lithium batteries.
tank is a high pressure vessel. fuel lines are high pressure hard lines.
think 914 fuel lines by a factor of 1000. i don't think you can smell hydrogen.
so won't get much of a warning of a leak.

truth is nothing is particularly clean........or green. it seems.

anyway - they are going to have to work out how to safely transport electric cars in bulk.
and the light bulb will be coming on about safety in parking garages - thats next.
i've seen that one coming for a while. ceiling drenchers work on fuel cars but not electric cars.

[Van B]

[quote name='Craigers17' date='Feb 19 2022, 05:21 PM' post='2982883']
Hydrogen fuel cells produce electricity by combining hydrogen and oxygen atoms from water. The hydrogen reacts with oxygen across an electrochemical cell similar to that of a battery to produce electricity, water, and small amounts of heat. If Hollywood thought a head just a bit, they'd realize that poison heavy metal fires are not the way of the future. If they put some of that money towards a system that gives you energy, and the by-product is more fuel, that just might work. But that makes way too much sense so sorry I mentioned it.
[/quote]

Anyone want to guess what country owns more than 50% of the world’s lithium production?


I think the correct answer to this question is nobody, but Australia is damn close, followed by Chile.....of course that's not the most fun answer.
[/quote]
If you’re talking about where lithium mines are located, then that could be correct. But, if you’re talking about what nation has a controlling interest in the companies doing the mining, then your statement is inaccurate. I wrote a paper on this topic for a class about national security concerns recently and I assure you, there is a very dirty secret in this whole EV business that no one is talking about.

[wonkipop]

[quote name='Craigers17' date='Feb 19 2022, 04:21 PM' post='2982883']
Hydrogen fuel cells produce electricity by combining hydrogen and oxygen atoms from water. The hydrogen reacts with oxygen across an electrochemical cell similar to that of a battery to produce electricity, water, and small amounts of heat. If Hollywood thought a head just a bit, they'd realize that poison heavy metal fires are not the way of the future. If they put some of that money towards a system that gives you energy, and the by-product is more fuel, that just might work. But that makes way too much sense so sorry I mentioned it.
[/quote]

Anyone want to guess what country owns more than 50% of the world’s lithium production?


I think the correct answer to this question is nobody, but Australia is damn close, followed by Chile.....of course that's not the most fun answer.
[/quote]

yes there is some lithium here.
we got the lot when it comes to poisons, rare metals, vicious snakes - --- and the sharks are back in force.
we probably even have naturally occuring plutonium but haven't found it yet?

i think most of it is in africa.
and which country is currently offering huge aid packages and economic support to buy influence there? and its not the USA.
but i don't think they can use the tibet or taiwan argument to lay claim to the territory like it was a new hong kong.

[StarBear]

A lot of lithium in CA but still years away. Likewise did a lot of business studies in hydrogen in the early 90s. Not much has changed - energy intensive, explosive, poor “mileage”. Best use is to hydrogenate heavy fuels into lighter fuels.

[wonkipop]

[quote name='Van B' date='Feb 19 2022, 04:49 PM' post='2982888']
[quote name='Craigers17' date='Feb 19 2022, 05:21 PM' post='2982883']
Hydrogen fuel cells produce electricity by combining hydrogen and oxygen atoms from water. The hydrogen reacts with oxygen across an electrochemical cell similar to that of a battery to produce electricity, water, and small amounts of heat. If Hollywood thought a head just a bit, they'd realize that poison heavy metal fires are not the way of the future. If they put some of that money towards a system that gives you energy, and the by-product is more fuel, that just might work. But that makes way too much sense so sorry I mentioned it.
[/quote]

Anyone want to guess what country owns more than 50% of the world’s lithium production?


I think the correct answer to this question is nobody, but Australia is damn close, followed by Chile.....of course that's not the most fun answer.
[/quote]
If you’re talking about where lithium mines are located, then that could be correct. But, if you’re talking about what nation has a controlling interest in the companies doing the mining, then your statement is inaccurate. I wrote a paper on this topic for a class about national security concerns recently and I assure you, there is a very dirty secret in this whole EV business that no one is talking about.
[/quote]

yes - chinese ownership of australian operating companies is a warm topic here.
it should be a hot topic.
and its not just rare metals and minerals.
we have a potential food security issue i believe.

its going to be an interesting decade or two ahead of us.
i might just live long enough to see the reconstruction of the iron and bamboo curtains?
perhaps in a slightly different form. but.......

[wonkipop]

A lot of lithium in CA but still years away. Likewise did a lot of business studies in hydrogen in the early 90s. Not much has changed - energy intensive, explosive, poor “mileage”. Best use is to hydrogenate heavy fuels into lighter fuels.

yes its not exactly easy to make or store hydrogen.
you need electricity to do it. kind of a vicious circle.
the talk here is of solar powered hydrogen plants.
who knows.
but its use will be with strict limitations and its not a universal solution.

going to be hard to replace texas tea.

[raynekat]

I've got a new Porsche coming right now on a different RORO transport ship....thank God. Ha
These boats sit very high out of the water.

They carry between 4000 and up to 8000 cars.
This boat had 1000 Porsches on it.
Estimating $150k/ Porsche (conservative estimate), that's $150 million in just Porsches.
Matt Farah from YouTube fame had his new Porsche on board.

What a mess.

[ClayPerrine]

It reminds me just how much the elitist want every gas car gone. So you can have EV fires in your house. I know they never think that far ahead, or do they? Build back better sound familiar?
Matt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

You need to be careful here... You are drifting into political waters.