VW/Audi/ Porsche Cargo ship blaze, Crew has been rescued / Ship + cargo loss Options

[930cabman]

Can I keep my gas powered vehicles? seems like an easy answer

At the current rate of consumption how many more years do we have with the known supplies?

[Van B]

What I would really like to see are electrical powered vehicles that rely on capacitors and fossil fuel powered generators.
A discharged capacitor poses no risk, and an engine attached to a generator can be tuned for absolute maximum efficiency since it only needs to run at one RPM.
This is the way.

[wonkipop]

Can I keep my gas powered vehicles? seems like an easy answer

At the current rate of consumption how many more years do we have with the known supplies?

you might get your wish.
after all the hoo hah about going pure electric, volvo has conceded it takes 100,00km of mileage to achieve the carbon offset emission from manufacture alone over a fuel car manufacture. not sure where those emissions might be produced. copper? or perhaps its the batteries. or maybe extensive use of lightweight metals? there are some issues that have not been addressed. whether anyone likes it or not CO2 is one big accounting exercise so it has to be taken into account.

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/01/21/unpack...u-think-claims/

as to fuel reserves. there is still a lot. but CO2 treaties will limit drawing on and exploiting untapped fields. bio fuels may fill the niche as they offer an offset while you are growing the fuel base stock.

i can't see myself buying a pure electric car in whats left of my life. simply because the numbers don't add up in CO2 terms. (and i am not a luddite, energy efficiency in buildings and clean energy is my work and i do it every day). i keep my mouth buttoned shut at dinner parties because for a certain class of australians electric cars are now a moral choice (but not a scientific one). what i probably will buy if i buy another car will be a hybrid. currently in australia hybrid car sales have gone through the roof.
at least a lot of australians are not making moral choices but numbers driven choices.
oddly they are doing better at CO2 reduction than the purists who want the tesla in the drive ( its become a kind of a "goodness" badge to have a T).

[Van B]

Tell ‘em that if they want goodness, they should try Jesus, not Elon.

[lesorubcheek]

What I would really like to see are electrical powered vehicles that rely on capacitors and fossil fuel powered generators.
A discharged capacitor poses no risk, and an engine attached to a generator can be tuned for absolute maximum efficiency since it only needs to run at one RPM.
This is the way.

This is the approach my son is thinking makes the most sense. He's been researching the use in trains and some ships and has been telling me for half a year this should be the future of transportation. Think his ultimate would be a turbine powered electric. We both agree that batteries are not smart from an ecological perspective nor fiscally.

Dan

[Van B]

What I would really like to see are electrical powered vehicles that rely on capacitors and fossil fuel powered generators.
A discharged capacitor poses no risk, and an engine attached to a generator can be tuned for absolute maximum efficiency since it only needs to run at one RPM.
This is the way.

This is the approach my son is thinking makes the most sense. He's been researching the use in trains and some ships and has been telling me for half a year this should be the future of transportation. Think his ultimate would be a turbine powered electric. We both agree that batteries are not smart from an ecological perspective nor fiscally.

Dan

Turbines are definitely an obvious choice, but even rotary engines can be made to run very efficiently under a constant load.
One real big benefit of turbines is that you don’t need all the extra systems for liquid cooling.
I’ve heard rumors that Dodge will be putting a generator in the next Ram trucks…. But it will still be a battery electric. The only company to use capacitors vs batteries has been Lamborghini.
It’s a great point about the GE diesel electric trains. GE cornered the market with that design as it was the only train engine to meet the updated emissions and efficiency standards.

[wonkipop]

What I would really like to see are electrical powered vehicles that rely on capacitors and fossil fuel powered generators.
A discharged capacitor poses no risk, and an engine attached to a generator can be tuned for absolute maximum efficiency since it only needs to run at one RPM.
This is the way.

This is the approach my son is thinking makes the most sense. He's been researching the use in trains and some ships and has been telling me for half a year this should be the future of transportation. Think his ultimate would be a turbine powered electric. We both agree that batteries are not smart from an ecological perspective nor fiscally.

Dan

Turbines are definitely an obvious choice, but even rotary engines can be made to run very efficiently under a constant load.
One real big benefit of turbines is that you don’t need all the extra systems for liquid cooling.
I’ve heard rumors that Dodge will be putting a generator in the next Ram trucks…. But it will still be a battery electric. The only company to use capacitors vs batteries has been Lamborghini.
It’s a great point about the GE diesel electric trains. GE cornered the market with that design as it was the only train engine to meet the updated emissions and efficiency standards.

and they (turbines) run on anything van - but you'd know that with your background.
old deep fryer oil from mcdonalds or the fish and chip shop.
kerosine. not particularly fussy with what they burn.

i wouldn't mind a turbine electric car just to get the abrams tank sound in the driveway.

[Shivers]

Can I keep my gas powered vehicles? seems like an easy answer

At the current rate of consumption how many more years do we have with the known supplies?

I really don't know if this movement will allow us to keep our IC cars. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Pushing auto makers into electric vehicles, I get the feeling that the petrochemical companies will be getting cheap product to make more plastic crap for our homes, sooner than later.

1981- Rush

My uncle has a country place
No one knows about
He says it used to be a farm
Before the "Motor Law"
And on Sundays I elude the eyes
And hop the turbine freight
To far outside the wire
Where my white-haired uncle waits

Jump to the ground
As the turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine
For 50 odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream

I strip away the old debris
That hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta
From a better vanished time
We fire up the willing engine
Responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel
I commit my weekly crime

[ClayPerrine]

What I would really like to see are electrical powered vehicles that rely on capacitors and fossil fuel powered generators.
A discharged capacitor poses no risk, and an engine attached to a generator can be tuned for absolute maximum efficiency since it only needs to run at one RPM.
This is the way.

This is the approach my son is thinking makes the most sense. He's been researching the use in trains and some ships and has been telling me for half a year this should be the future of transportation. Think his ultimate would be a turbine powered electric. We both agree that batteries are not smart from an ecological perspective nor fiscally.

Dan

Turbines are definitely an obvious choice, but even rotary engines can be made to run very efficiently under a constant load.
One real big benefit of turbines is that you don’t need all the extra systems for liquid cooling.
I’ve heard rumors that Dodge will be putting a generator in the next Ram trucks…. But it will still be a battery electric. The only company to use capacitors vs batteries has been Lamborghini.
It’s a great point about the GE diesel electric trains. GE cornered the market with that design as it was the only train engine to meet the updated emissions and efficiency standards.

and they (turbines) run on anything van - but you'd know that with your background.
old deep fryer oil from mcdonalds or the fish and chip shop.
kerosine. not particularly fussy with what they burn.

i wouldn't mind a turbine electric car just to get the abrams tank sound in the driveway.

How about an aircraft APU? This one is small enough to fit in a 914 engine compartment.



"Measuring 12 inches by 13 inches by 24 inches, the MPU weighs 75 pounds and is rated at 10kW and 400 amps."

Tie that to a capacitor bank, and a Tesla Model S motor. The capacitor bank holds the APU output and releases it when needed for acceleration. Add regenerative braking and you increase the fuel efficiency. At home, keep it plugged in to keep the capacitors charged up.

Or better yet, use the Protean wheel motors to make it all wheel drive, and make more room for the capacitor bank.



Yes, I know it increases unsprung weight. But do the benefits outweigh (pun intended) the extra unsprung weight?


Any thoughts?

Clay

[Superhawk996]

At the current rate of consumption how many more years do we have with the known supplies?

Can't believe this question is still asked even if rhetorically. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) Peak oil was supposed to have occurred in 1970s. Whenever oil resources do finally become constrained, there will be other technological solutions to either get at oil that is not feasible to get today, or that alternatives like biofuels, Hybrids, or even EV's will make sense. We are not there yet.

[Superhawk996]

What I would really like to see are electrical powered vehicles that rely on capacitors and fossil fuel powered generators.
A discharged capacitor poses no risk, and an engine attached to a generator can be tuned for absolute maximum efficiency since it only needs to run at one RPM.
This is the way.

What you've proposed is basically a hybrid arrangment.

The way you know this isn't about the environment is because Hybrids have been completely excluded from the conversation in favor of EV's with no explanation of where the electricity will come from, the supply limitations of the rare earth metals needed to produce them, or the environmental wastelands created by mining them.

Not picking on 930cabman in my comment above. Everyone talks about limited supply of fossil fuel but not a peep about supply limitations on the raw materials for EVs? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

[Superhawk996]

1981- Rush

My uncle has a country place
No one knows about
He says it used to be a farm
Before the "Motor Law"
And on Sundays I elude the eyes
And hop the turbine freight
To far outside the wire
Where my white-haired uncle waits

Jump to the ground
As the turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine
For 50 odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream

I strip away the old debris
That hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta
From a better vanished time
We fire up the willing engine
Responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel
I commit my weekly crime

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[Superhawk996]

Yes, I know it increases unsprung weight. But do the benefits outweigh (pun intended) the extra unsprung weight?


Any thoughts?

Clay

The benefits don't currently outweigh the negatives to unsprung weight, complexity, and cost. In general, having high mass and inertia rotating motors out on the corners of the vehicle doesn't help handling (except for the torque vectoring aspect) It's the opposite of mass centralization and low polar moment of inertia that the 914 has.

While it may be fun to do low speed tank turns but it's not quite that simple in a production execution given the way lawyers now dominate the industry and our society at large.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzwM8KE2L3I


The functional safety (ISO26262) and potential failure modes of four wheel motors are a hindrance.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/why-rivian-...ure-is-delayed/

There are more elegant ways to achieve torque vectoring than 4 wheel independent motors. In my opinion, this allows for more high speed torque vectoring options and without all the drawbacks of 4 wheel motors. There are a ton of different solutions being explored right now - YouTube if you want more of them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DqPmACIeKA

[Van B]

What I would really like to see are electrical powered vehicles that rely on capacitors and fossil fuel powered generators.
A discharged capacitor poses no risk, and an engine attached to a generator can be tuned for absolute maximum efficiency since it only needs to run at one RPM.
This is the way.

What you've proposed is basically a hybrid arrangment.

The way you know this isn't about the environment is because Hybrids have been completely excluded from the conversation in favor of EV's with no explanation of where the electricity will come from, the supply limitations of the rare earth metals needed to produce them, or the environmental wastelands created by mining them.

Not picking on 930cabman in my comment above. Everyone talks about limited supply of fossil fuel but not a peep about supply limitations on the raw materials for EVs? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

I was waiting for you to join in!
Hybrid in a literally sense, yes. But the lexicon has defined a hybrid as a fossil fuel driven power train with electric augmentation or backup. I think changing the role of a petrol engine exclusively to a generator i.e. disconnecting it from locomotion, is significant enough to warrant a change in terms. I propose we call them Juice Boxes! Because they make their own juice lol!

[Superhawk996]

I think changing the role of a petrol engine exclusively to a generator i.e. disconnecting it from locomotion, is significant enough to warrant a change in terms. I propose we call them Juice Boxes! Because they make their own juice lol!

We basically had this with the GM Volt. Initially when Volt was announced, your vision was the concept. In production, there was some minor details in the Volt architecture that kept this from being true in the absolute sense. However, the GM control strategy was primarily to run EV mode and then fire the engine/generator as needed to maintain battery SOC. It was a viable EV solution for long range trips where stopping every 300 miles for "fast charging" wasn't necessary. Yes, in long range trips there was some mechanical connection of the ICE motor to the secondary EV motor so not pure electric generation driving on long haul trips . . . but . . . come on, it worked great as EV on short trips and didn't suffer long range trip anxiety and need for repeated stopping to charge.

https://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2010-12...ing-chevy-volt/

Strangely, the market didn't want them yet, in part, due to cost premium over similar ICE vehicles. The virtue signaling crowd didn't want them because they weren't pure EV's and utilized fossil fuel on long trips. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Crazy world.

[vitamin914]

How 'bout a Stirling engine driving a generator to charge batteries / capacitors? Stirling engines use external heat sources... Since they run on hot air, we can finally have an ethical use for politicians! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[wonkipop]

I think changing the role of a petrol engine exclusively to a generator i.e. disconnecting it from locomotion, is significant enough to warrant a change in terms. I propose we call them Juice Boxes! Because they make their own juice lol!

We basically had this with the GM Volt. There was some minor details in the Volt architecture that kept this from being true in the absolute sense. However, the GM control strategy was primarily to run EV mode and then fire the engine/generator as needed to maintain battery SOC. It was a viable EV solution for long range trips where stopping every 300 miles for "fast charging" wasn't necessary.

Strangely, the market didn't want them yet. The virtue signaling crowd didn't want them because they weren't pure EV's and utilized fossil fuel to generate the electricity on long trips. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Crazy world.

correct about the virtue signalling crowd. its a moral position.
that carbon dioxide continues to be referred to as carbon tells you all you need to know.
my dinner party quip is always - but we are a carbon based life form.
gets blank stares.

the fuel question will end up being an accounting one.
you will purchase carbon dioxide credits in a worse case scenario - at least for our life times.

i would love to have the kind of vehicle van suggests.
and if i had to i'd send my 914 over to texas and have clay perrine install an APU.
just so i could set a particular poodle on fire with the exhaust -- said poodle travels on the end of a leash connected to a woman that walks past my studio door with her fingers plugging her nose while i am warming up the 914. i think she is trying to say she finds the smell of hydrocarbons offensive. i'm going to take up cigar smoking soon to augment the vapours in sympathy.

gentleman, start your APUs.

[wonkipop]

if anyone is interested.

complete tear down of a tesla motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVge8I6kxPY

its got a spin off oil filter.

[Superhawk996]

that carbon dioxide continues to be referred to as carbon tells you all you need to know.
my dinner party quip is always - but we are a carbon based life form.
gets blank stares.

Next time, double down on it, tell them your against dihydrogen oxide and that they should be too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[lesorubcheek]

I really don't know if this movement will allow us to keep our IC cars. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Pushing auto makers into electric vehicles, I get the feeling that the petrochemical companies will be getting cheap product to make more plastic crap for our homes, sooner than later.

1981- Rush

My uncle has a country place
No one knows about
He says it used to be a farm
Before the "Motor Law"
And on Sundays I elude the eyes
And hop the turbine freight
To far outside the wire
Where my white-haired uncle waits

Jump to the ground
As the turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine
For 50 odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream

I strip away the old debris
That hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta
From a better vanished time
We fire up the willing engine
Responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel
I commit my weekly crime

My first ever concert in Tallahassee. Red Barchetta and Bytor and the Snow Dog were the best performances that stick in the old brain cells.... that's been a long time ago.


Dan