Order of operations: front suspension Options

[rjames]

My steering has started to feel 'floaty' at freeway speeds. I haven't been able to pinpoint why, but given I've had the car for 16 years and don't know all of the prior work that was done by the PO, I'm going to replace the following:

-Ball joints
-Tie rods (replacing with turbos)
-A-arm bushings
-Struts
-Maybe the steering coupler (thinking that might be why the steering feels the way it does).

I've watched Ian's videos and read countless posts, but can't figure out if I can do the above without dropping the whole front end. I have limited garage space, so would love to avoid that if possible.

Lastly, will I need to separate the brake lines to get any/all of the above done? (Hoping the answer is 'no' since I just the did the master cylinder not too long ago and don't relish the idea of bleeding the brakes again).

Thanks!

[rjames]

Double post

[Mikey914]

You got all the usual suspects, so yes you will improve it. The brake lines will detach so carefully you can seporate them from the syrut assembly.
Its all comming out, i'd do the struts ball joints and rack arms 1st. You will get a pretty good idea while you are in there id the A arms need done.

[mepstein]

No, you can hang the calipers away from the struts with zip ties.
You can definitely take it apart piece by piece. I think it’s easier to remove and install in one unit but it’s your choice.

We have a car in the lift right now getting all new suspension, not touching the brakes.

[914_teener]

If you haven't done rotors and bearings and races...I'd add those to the list.

The turbo tie rods made a huge difference along with adding in a stock sway bar.

[Shivers]

No, you can hang the calipers away from the struts with zip ties.
You can definitely take it apart piece by piece. I think it’s easier to remove and install in one unit but it’s your choice.

We have a car in the lift right now getting all new suspension, not touching the brakes.

Isn’t that pretty

[mepstein]

No, you can hang the calipers away from the struts with zip ties.
You can definitely take it apart piece by piece. I think it’s easier to remove and install in one unit but it’s your choice.

We have a car in the lift right now getting all new suspension, not touching the brakes.

Isn’t that pretty

SC getting MCS coil overs and Stompski sway bars. We did the Boxster brakes last year.

[burton73]

I had to post this here as well.

Shown is the front end for Mark. Sonners 2170 RAT Blue car at PMB that was going to be my V8 car, but I changed directions on it. Sent it all to PMB to finish the car. 914-4 a-arms with new rubber bushings, 911 Carrera hubs, 911 Carrera steering rack, turbo tie rods and new bearings and ball joints. Eric set it up with his Alpha calipers on 3 inch.

It is as clean as any I have seen and Eric says it is going to stop big time.

Bob B Burton

[rjames]

If you haven't done rotors and bearings and races...I'd add those to the list.

The turbo tie rods made a huge difference along with adding in a stock sway bar.

Already have a sway bar. I did the bearings a while back, but probably not long ago enough to require replacing them. Good call on the rotors, although the were replaced when I did the bearings, I will measure them to ensure they're within tolerance.

[rjames]

I had to post this here as well.

Shown is the front end for Mark. Sonners 2170 RAT Blue car at PMB that was going to be my V8 car, but I changed directions on it. Sent it all to PMB to finish the car. 914-4 a-arms with new rubber bushings, 911 Carrera hubs, 911 Carrera steering rack, turbo tie rods and new bearings and ball joints. Eric set it up with his Alpha calipers on 3 inch.

It is as clean as any I have seen and Eric says it is going to stop big time.

Bob B Burton

That pic makes me want to drop everything. Seems like it would be easier to get at all the parts. Is that true, or from a leverage standpoint, is it easier to do some of the work I'm planning without removing the entire thing? Does the gas tank have to come out to get at what you need to drop it all?

How to do you know if the rack needs to be rebuilt?

[SirAndy]

That pic makes me want to drop everything. Seems like it would be easier to get at all the parts. Is that true, or from a leverage standpoint, is it easier to do some of the work I'm planning without removing the entire thing? Does the gas tank have to come out to drop it all?

Dropping the whole front end is easy and straight forward and makes working on things a *lot* easier.

There's only one problem, you will have to lift or remove the gas tank to get to the clamp that holds the steering rack coupler to the chassis.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[rjames]

That pic makes me want to drop everything. Seems like it would be easier to get at all the parts. Is that true, or from a leverage standpoint, is it easier to do some of the work I'm planning without removing the entire thing? Does the gas tank have to come out to drop it all?

Dropping the whole front end is easy and straight forward and makes working on things a *lot* easier.

There's only one problem, you will have to lift or remove the gas tank to get to the clamp that holds the steering rack coupler to the chassis.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

ahh right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Well, I've done that before, I can do it again I suppose.

After looking at the above picture again, it looks like I could leave the struts and rotor and brake stuff in place but still drop the rack, A-arms and tie rods as a unit. No?

[SirAndy]

After looking at the above picture again, it looks like I could leave the struts and rotor and brake stuff in place but still drop the rack, A-arms and tie rods as a unit. No?

Yes, you can undo the ball joints and just drop the center part.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[yellowporky]

When i did my 73 1.7 i could not bring myself to install the rubber a-arm bushing even though i had already bought them and the install tool. The binding of the rubber as it fights with the strut just messed with my brain so i went with the Rebel racing RSR kit (no special tools or pressing) over the Elephant racing because you dont need to lube them every 3-4000 miles. Also added the turbo tie rods.
You are focused on the front of the car as the issue so i assume the rear is all good?

[Ishley]

One issue that you want to be very careful with is bolt breakage. I broke a few and it really can set you back. Use a small 3/8 ratchet and go slow on disassembling the parts. Sometimes try to tighten them first. Whack the bolt hard with a hammer to help break it free. If you get out the big breaker bar you can snap a bolt in a flash. The pan under steering rack has 2 bolts in the rear that hold the aux suspension carrier. These are critical and are exposes directly to the elements. Use heat when things won’t move. If you have to repaint… it’s still faster then all the crazy stuff you’ll do to get a broken bolt out. Also… if you use a torch… the fuel tank has to be out. Don’t risk it.

For the ball joint you need a special socket and probably a powerful driver.

The early cars have a difficult bolt that clamps the strut to the ball joint. Lube and heat is the best way. I use a torch setup with mapp and oxygen. The O2 is expensive but you can get bolts red hot.

Of course good jack stands with a backup as you’ll be pushing and shoving against the car. I always setup a second set of stands as a backup.

Good luck!

[rjames]

Got the tank out. Bulkhead area could use a little cleaning, but otherwise looks like it did when I had the tank out for cleaning and a sway bar install 10+ years ago. I've got a set of the stainless steel fuel lines that have been sitting in the box for awhile, so might as well get those installed now, too.



Tank still looks good.


Time to replace the gasket that goes between the expansion tank and the tank.



Ok, next round of questions:
To remove the rack, do I have to remove the master cylinder? If that's a yes, I'm now leaning towards leaving the rack in the car as getting the master cylinder installed was such a huge PITA and I only did it a couple of years ago.

If I do leave the rack in the car, is it possible to replace the steering coupler without cutting the plastic cover?

[burton73]

Got the tank out. Bulkhead area could use a little cleaning, but otherwise looks like it did when I had the tank out for cleaning and a sway bar install 10+ years ago. I've got a set of the stainless steel fuel lines that have been sitting in the box for awhile, so might as well get those installed now, too.

Tank still looks good.

Time to replace the gasket that goes between the expansion tank and the tank.

Ok, next round of questions:
To remove the rack, do I have to remove the master cylinder? If that's a yes, I'm now leaning towards leaving the rack in the car as getting the master cylinder installed was such a huge PITA and I only did it a couple of years ago.

If I do leave the rack in the car, is it possible to replace the steering coupler without cutting the plastic cover?

You do not need to remove the master cylinder. I dropped the full thing out at one time in 1979 in my 74 and just put a 911sc Front in place. I was in my mid 20s and it seemed easy back then. On the ground with just a jack and some stands for the front

Best Bob B

[rjames]

Reading that I can remove the rack without removing the master cylinder just made my morning. Would love a 2nd confirmation before I get too excited.

Before I start removing things, anything I can do to keep the alignment near where it is? I expect I'll need a full alignment when finished with everything, but I don't want things to be so far off that I can't drive it to whatever shop eventually does the final alignment.

[SirAndy]

Reading that I can remove the rack without removing the master cylinder just made my morning. Would love a 2nd confirmation before I get too excited.

Before I start removing things, anything I can do to keep the alignment near where it is? I expect I'll need a full alignment when finished with everything, but I don't want things to be so far off that I can't drive it to whatever shop eventually does the final alignment.

Confirmed, the MC should not interfere unless you have an aftermarket brace or brake-lines tied to the rack etc.

As for the alignment, if you are leaving the struts you *should* be pretty close to where you were on reassemble as long as you don't touch any of the adjustment nuts.
Pro tip, before you reattach the rack to the wheel side, center your steering the rack (both ends sticking out the same), lock the shaft in place, attach the steering wheel, then attach everything on the wheel ends, then unlock the shaft.

If you are removing the struts, you can mark the top plate and bolt locations to get back close to where you were.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[rjames]

Finally moving on this. Figured I'd continue this thread as I already have questions.

First some minutia- The dust shields on my '75 were born in '74. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Got the ball joints loose with this awesome tool and just a breaker bar:


I must have overtightened the passenger side bearing retainer in the past because I couldn't remove it by hand. I think the spindle threads are ok because when removing the retainer it was tight through the entire length of the spindle threads and not just where it rests against the washer when installed. Will post a wtb for a left side retainer in hopes that the spindle threads are ok.


Lastly, how do I remove the shock's top bolt? When I try and loosen it, everything wants to turn- the big washer, the shock spindle and upper part of the strut housing inside the fender.
Is it possible to loosen (and re-install when the time comes) without an impact wrench? I I am using a 22mm box wrench now, but just ordered a 22mm socket. I do have a breaker bar- hoping that's enough leverage to loosen it, but can't figure out how to keep the rest of the assembly from wanting to rotate, too

.

I also noticed my setup doesn't include a safety tab that's supposed to be there. Am I missing a washer of some sort with the tab?