Possible 3.0L purchase Options

[Zaffer]

I am looking for some advice on what a price range would be for a 3.0L engine, long block only, out of a 1980 911 Targa. The engine needs to be rebuilt as there is a knock (though faint) while the engine was running. Shortly after I heard it running, the engine caught fire, but was put out within 5 minutes; the fuel line at the frequency valve failed and blew fuel onto the exhaust system.

The engine is stock, was running on factory CIS, but does have the timing chain upgrade. Some of the components survived the fire (alternator, cooling shroud, distributor, and SOME of the CIS components), but the majority of the CIS system was damaged. The long block is fine, however.

I am considering purchasing the engine to rebuild and put into my 914, but I would like to know what to offer given the above information as I really have no clue. If I don't go this route, I will be doing a 3.0L Subaru conversion instead.

The picture is of the engine in question.

Thanks for any and all advice and I really appreciate everyone on this forum!

[930cabman]

I would make sure I have $12.k minimum in my pocket. These are not cheap, Subi will be less expensive, the /6 will be more authentic.

[Steve]

$12k minimum to overhaul, not to buy the engine. I would say $5k for a core, but @mepstein has more experience selling these motors.

[Superhawk996]

$12k minimum to overhaul, not to buy the engine. I would say $5k for a core, but @mepstein has more experience selling these motors.

Minimum being the important word. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[mepstein]

$12k minimum to overhaul, not to buy the engine. I would say $5k for a core, but @mepstein has more experience selling these motors.

Steve - If I could buy a 3.0 for $5k, I would buy as many as possible. That’s a long ago price. These days you are looking at $10-20k labor + parts ($15-20k) to rebuild. I know of shops in California charging $20k for top ends. Even if you do an overhaul yourself, it’s easy to spend $15k for parts and machining. Add $5k for carbs or $15k for itb’s and FI.

$12.5 would still be good. Imo.

Add in another $15k to do the conversion.

My shop has already rebuilt about 15 engines this year so I’m not just making up prices. That being said, a 3.0 in a 914 (while isn’t a great investment) is a great power plant and makes it super fun to drive.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Cairo94507]

Or you could buy my 3.2 and it is ready to install. (shameless plug- sorry)
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=367139

[mepstein]

Or you could buy my 3.2 and it is ready to install. (shameless plug- sorry)
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=367139

It’s always a better value to buy a good running engine like Michael’s over a core. I know the builder who built Michael’s engine. If he’s at 9K miles, it probably has 191k left. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[NARP74]

It does seem like the unknown of the 3.0 has a wide swing depending what is found wrong and upgrades wanted. Versus the fixed cost of a finished product. Only a deal for the 3.0 if the cost can be assured to be well below the finished engine price. Not to mention the time factor, done now vs who knows how long the rebuild will take. Engine people around me are 6 months out in some cases and the wait for parts on top of that.

What's that line about no cheap Porsches???

Tough choices. Watching to see which way this goes. Good luck.

[mb911]

so a knock on these are very unlikely but possibly. If it is in fact knocking that could be expensive, crank, rods, oil cooler need overhaul. My guess is timing chain noises or possible piston slap. That would make the purchase much more enjoyable. If it weee local to me I would gamble 10k max on it without tearing it down first for inspection

[burton73]

Or you could buy my 3.2 and it is ready to install. (shameless plug- sorry)
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=367139

This is the way to go for sure. Just need a few things and your car will be worth way more that the 30g for Michaels 3.2.

Bob B

[mate914]

I am looking for some advice on what a price range would be for a 3.0L engine, long block only, out of a 1980 911 Targa. The engine needs to be rebuilt as there is a knock (though faint) while the engine was running. Shortly after I heard it running, the engine caught fire, but was put out within 5 minutes; the fuel line at the frequency valve failed and blew fuel onto the exhaust system.

The engine is stock, was running on factory CIS, but does have the timing chain upgrade. Some of the components survived the fire (alternator, cooling shroud, distributor, and SOME of the CIS components), but the majority of the CIS system was damaged. The long block is fine, however.

I am considering purchasing the engine to rebuild and put into my 914, but I would like to know what to offer given the above information as I really have no clue. If I don't go this route, I will be doing a 3.0L Subaru conversion instead.

The picture is of the engine in question.

Thanks for any and all advice and I really appreciate everyone on this forum!

I say buy the 3.0 turn to a 3.2ss and enjoy your 914. You will not be disappointed!
Matt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

[SirAndy]

$12k minimum to overhaul, not to buy the engine. I would say $5k for a core, but @mepstein has more experience selling these motors.

Steve - If I could buy a 3.0 for $5k, I would buy as many as possible. That’s a long ago price. These days you are looking at $10-20k labor + parts ($15-20k) to rebuild. I know of shops in California charging $20k for top ends. Even if you do an overhaul yourself, it’s easy to spend $15k for parts and machining. Add $5k for carbs or $15k for itb’s and FI.

$12.5 would still be good. Imo.

Add in another $15k to do the conversion.

My shop has already rebuilt about 15 engines this year so I’m not just making up prices. That being said, a 3.0 in a 914 (while isn’t a great investment) is a great power plant and makes it super fun to drive.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)
Man, am i glad i got my motor when i did.

And i though i paid a lot of money for it then.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[infraredcalvin]

If I could buy a 3.0 for $5k, I would buy as many as possible. That’s a long ago price.

That’s funny, I bought a 3.0 from you a while back for about that…. Glad I bought when I did, but it’s been in the corner since, right next to an 2.7 7R core, and a fresh FAT 2.3 IV… I gotta get rid of some stuff… (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Problem is, I couldn't leave well enough alone, I’d want to hot rod Cairo’s 3.2, end up with a twin plug 3.4 (wait, I have one of those). I’d pick the 3.0 and build something else special, 2.8 or a 3.2 hot rod motor as suggested above…but that’s a different slippery slope…

[Chris914n6]

There is a 79 CIS in the classifieds.

[mepstein]

If I could buy a 3.0 for $5k, I would buy as many as possible. That’s a long ago price.

That’s funny, I bought a 3.0 from you a while back for about that…. Glad I bought when I did, but it’s been in the corner since, right next to an 2.7 7R core, and a fresh FAT 2.3 IV… I gotta get rid of some stuff… (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

It is amazing how quickly prices escalated .
I bought my first 3.2 engine for $4,500. It came rebuilt with some performance parts. Now, a new pair of Mahle p&c’s cost that much. Labor has gone through the roof. There are fewer people who work on air cooled. This year, we rebuilt engines for three shops that sent us customer engines. I wonder how the market/hobby will look in 10 years.

[Zaffer]

Yeah, the more I dig into it the more I realize I would do it purely for the “Powered by Porsche” nostalgia, which for me is an expensive proposition. If I’m realistically looking at 20-40K, that would put my car at around 40-60k by the time I’m get bodywork, paint, interior, etc. done on my car. That’s a little rich for my blood ATM. The Subaru six is looking much more enticing, especially since it’ll have more power, same/less weight, and be just as reliable, if not more so.

I know purists hate the conversions, but more people are doing conversions to 911’s due to the exorbitant costs of the engines. I’ll still see what the guy wants and go from there, though.

[mepstein]

Expensive now but again, in 10 years, there’s a good chance we’ll look back and be amazed that these engines “only” cost $40k. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mb911]

Yeah, the more I dig into it the more I realize I would do it purely for the “Powered by Porsche” nostalgia, which for me is an expensive proposition. If I’m realistically looking at 20-40K, that would put my car at around 40-60k by the time I’m get bodywork, paint, interior, etc. done on my car. That’s a little rich for my blood ATM. The Subaru six is looking much more enticing, especially since it’ll have more power, same/less weight, and be just as reliable, if not more so.

I know purists hate the conversions, but more people are doing conversions to 911’s due to the exorbitant costs of the engines. I’ll still see what the guy wants and go from there, though.

The 6 Porsche engine is so wonderful there was and is no other option for me. But that’s just me. I have always waited for the right opportunity and buy when I can piece by piece .

[campbellcj]

I can confirm that engines and build costs started going bonkers years ago as @mepstein says - my 2.7 last came apart about 10 years ago and that was in the $20k ballpark for parts & labor. At the time I thought about doing a 2.8 but the added cost of the desired Mahle motorsport P&C would've added another $4-5k or whatever.

Alas now it's got an oil leak that means the clock's ticking on doing something again. I would love to put something like a 3.0 'RSR' MFI engine in this thing or perhaps a 3.2SS but that's probably a fantasy as I imagine $40-60+ for an outright purchase w/o core (?)

[Steve]

Crazy.. I paid 3k for a long block 2.7 and 1k for brand new webers from PMO back in 1987. The 2.7 had a top end overhaul and then i paid 5200 for my 3.2 in 2000. The 3.2 came out of a euro gray market 911. I then paid 25k for my 3.6 a couple of years ago. It had bad leak down on 3 cylinders. I paid another $8k for a top end overhaul and added RS cams and Steve Wong Chip.
Expensive hobby, but take a look at LS crate engines, there not cheap now either.