123 Install Today - GETTING CLOSER..., PROGRESS: BAD MPS Options

[Superhawk996]

The whole - “it won’t fit 180 out” is some sort of urban legend that has been around forever.

Glad it was an easy fix for you!

[Stratfink]

Glad you got it figured out Brian. I struggled with mine for a bit and then figured out I had the coil wires swapped…. Once I got it in and adjusted the timing my idle was very high - I think the idle screw was way too open in a effort to compensate for bad timing on the old distributor (I had not checked or set the timing since acquiring the 914). Runs strong now and very happy with the 123.

[FlacaProductions]

Well - I got it where it'll start now but that's about it.
Again - redid the green light setup with 123 in proper (not 180 out) orientation.
Doesn't want to idle - it fluctuates. At best.
Doesn't seem to take a curve where I can confirm/sync timing.
Can't rev smoothly to an RPM that I can use to confirm timing with a light. Seems really dead between 1300-2500
I've backed out the idle screw in an effort to get it to idle - even if high - no real effect.
I pulled the 4 and then the 3 spark plug wire while it's trying to run and it didn't seem to make much difference.
Did I do something during my 180-out experience? It kicked back pretty firmly a few times and I had one pretty big backfire....
This is starting to get really frustrating - you do something to try to improve one thing and another thing goes...and maybe due to my own stupidity.

[914_teener]

Are you SURE the firing order is right?

[FlacaProductions]

i know...right?
Just double-checked it just now.
Again.
For the millionth time.
1-4-3-2
I want it to be something like that.

[emerygt350]

It would be worth figuring out what your vacuum hose does now, and if the Bluetooth version actually looks for map. If it's a 74 with one hose, it would have to be a retard and coming off below the butterfly and from the back side of the TB. Early 74s has both advance (ported, off the front of the TB) and retard. No 74 had just advance that I have heard of but POs do all kinds of things.

On the non-bluetooth 123 you choose adv or retard and hook the vacuum line up appropriately. On the Bluetooth I am not sure of the instructions but ported is very specific, MAP won't give you that, so for advance to work correctly I would think even the Bluetooth would need ported vacuum.

[emerygt350]

Sorry, not time for the vacuum I guess! While I was typing you gave us an update!

[emerygt350]

Are you sure you are sending the right wires to the right cylinders? 1 and 2 always mess with me.

This could be the timing 'map' or whatever they call it. Are you sure you have a good one? Can you just force it to give you 8 degrees at 800rpm?

[emerygt350]

And don't hook that vacuum line up yet. Just plug it.

[FlacaProductions]

I'm taking all-comers at this point, @emerygt350 - vac line is plugged.

I'll try 8 degrees at 800 and see what that does...but i just spent a few minutes looking at the old distributer and how the shaft is keyed, the way it had been oriented when installed and the way the female portion at the bottom the shaft sits.

I'll do a complete removal tomorrow and compare it with the known orientation of how the old one sat and do it all again.

Starting from the beginning:

Here's a pic of my key and then a pic from Haynes showing what I believe confirms that my positioning is correct. Am I right?

[GBX0073]

Brian
From my experience and understanding of checking and rechecking and then checking again much like you are doing that is the Correct position for #1 TDC

[FlacaProductions]

Ok @GBX0073 - Thank you!
Onward.
I have also confirmed thru old pics I have of my engine bay and looking at the notch on the edge of the old distributor the previous orientation and location of #1 and by extrapolation the rest.
I’ll pull the 123 out next and look at that. Again.
Good to have confirmation on the orientation.

[Rob-O]

Hey Brian, I didn’t see this prior so you may have addressed it. Are you using the Bluetooth version or the version where you choose a map and forget it?

My experience is with the Bluetooth model but I assume they both have the set it with the green light feature.

Glad to hear the 180 out part was resolved. Now onward! So if the car is lethargic we can diagnose and fix that.

[FlacaProductions]

Hey @Rob-O - Bluetooth with drop it in, rotate CCW to green light, remove backlash from rotor.

[Rob-O]

Okay so progress…

So I want to be sure. You set the engine to TDC. Not being funny, this has tripped up more than a dozen people in the past. If you are absolutely positive that the engine is at TDC, THEN check that dizzy drive gear to ensure it’s in the correct position. If that is correct, then drop your dizzy in and turn it until the green light. The green light is only telling you that your dizzy is now pointing at cylinder one (and since we checked TDC in step one, we know the engine is at TDC. So we have green light at TDC…so we’ll get a spark on cylinder 1 when the engine is exactly at TDC, and we know that a spark when the engine is at TDC happens too late, because the process of generating a spark and getting it to the cylinder takes time…about 8 degrees of time when we’re at idle. Will the car run (idle) with no advancing of the timing? Yup, and I suspect that’s where you’re having problems. So right now the car is idling but poorly. This is the time we’d turn the car off and then turn the key back on (but don’t start the car). Then load your app and load a curve. I’ll post a photo of my curve (1.8L, stock L-Jet).

As for vacuum, I plugged mine. The 123 can use MAP but I can’t see any reason to use it you don’t need any vacuum signal for advance because, well, you have a 123 now, you just program in the advance as a more or less aggressive curve .

[Rob-O]

123 curve

[Stratfink]

Any chance you tried the “flat” 10 degree curve to get the initial timing right (a curve with timing at 10 deg for all rpm)? This was mentioned by others and allows a one man operation to get the 123 synced with the app. Then you can set a more typical curve with proper advance at higher rpm.

[FlacaProductions]

Hey @Rob-O - That's been the exact procedure. Confirming my TDC by both white mark in the notch (not the red - which is 27 degrees - which I don't use because I have a digital dial-back timing light) and the white marking that I can see thru the bottom trans inspection hole (for valve settings). AND the rotor points to where it always has (now, anyway - not when it was 180 out) which is at approximately 10 o'clock when standing at the back of the car.

I started it and then shut it off and loaded a curve. (one that @Lockwodo had posted he liked for his 2.0) as well as a flat 10 degree across the board in an attempt to confirm the timing @Stratfink - no luck on either. Just wouldn't idle (I backed the screw all the way out in a desperate attempt to get it to just idle - even if it was going to be high) no luck.

i'm SURE i'm doing something wrong here - still - so...today i'm going to put the original one with a Pertronix back in and see how that goes.

I shall report back. Continued thanks for sticking with me on this "journey" - unfortunately, today is the last day I'll have to deal with this for a number of weeks so....let's hope for an early Christmas miracle.

More soon.

[FlacaProductions]

Latest update.
ok.
it runs. correctly - no fighting itself anymore.

So - i'm in business - but...

Very low idle and I can't get a steady throttle response.
Process was: remove 123, confirm TDC, install old dizzy for alignment confirmation/location of coil/plug 1, remove old dizzy, install 123, green LED test, connect black coil wire, load flat 10 degree curve, start.

At this point, it started and sounds like it's firing in the correct order and responds to a pull on the throttle cable but idle is very low - no matter the position of the idle screw.

Could it be yellow and white connections are reversed? I have the yellow on the left when looking into connection with the "hump" on top. EDIT: i just reversed those and it does seem to run better. shrugs.

I think what would really help is if I could raise the idle but I get nothing from the idle screw.

Best I've gotten is by loading this curve (lookin' at you, @iankarr - it's modified from what you posted!):



TLDR: idle is too low no matter what. - quick video of the idle.
https://vimeo.com/895594723/f01e410a2e?share=copy

[rjames]

How well did the car run with the old setup?