Project 3.6 RS Thread, Getting the bugs out and oil line leak Options

[eric9144]

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[ClayPerrine]

Steve,

If you were looking for an option to run hydraulic tappets, my 2.7 uses 993 cam caps and 964 cams with hydro tappets. Would think something similar could be done on a 3.2?

-Dan

No reason why it wouldn't work on a 3.2. It's just a cost issue. A 3.6 has a mass air flow meter (firewire) (versus barn door AFM on a 3.2), twin plug and bigger displacement. All can be done to a 3.2 for a price. I'm also a big fan on stock versus mods. I went from 2.7 to 3.2 and now to 3.6.

Mark @mepstein
Why RS cams unless you want to keep the hydraulic tappets? So much better cam options with solid tappets. RS was the biggest I could go and keep the hydraulic lifters. I'm getting older and don't want to adjust valves if I don't have to. Even though I probably adjust valves every 5-10 years since I only use my car for Cars & Coffee and events. I thought about 3.8, but I am not a fan of slip ins and I did not want to split the case (bigger bucks). 4.0 is a ridiculous amount of money. I was told it requires GT3 crank and ITB's.

I misspoke. It’s not an rs cam. It’s very similar to a GT2 evo cam.

When I did mine, I had the cams reground to 993SS spec. The 993SS cams used solid rockers. I also did the big valves to improve air flow.

When I bought the motor, it was 8 grand for what was definitely a core motor. I had to buy all of the intake and electronics separately off ebay.


And a 4.0L engine does not require a GT3 crank and ITBs. With the proper piston and cylinder set from LN Engineering, you can get 4L out of a 964 motor with the stock crank. You can use the stock intake, but you will leave some horsepower on the table vs ITBs.

Clay, I had to do a rebuild on my stock 3.2 probably 15 years ago. I was zipping down the 57 freeway at about 120 mph. I was driving the motor pretty hard as I normally would. I shifted from 4th to 5th gear on the down down grade, and the motor made a very odd clunk sound after my shift..! I turned off the motor and coasted it into the gas station at the Temple Avenue off ramp. I tried turning the motor over after that point, and it would not spin or even start.. I called a flatbed tow truck and took it back to the shop. I then started the motor again, and it made horrific, gnarly, grinding noise..
Turns out, I actually broke my crank, and the motor was still running, almost sawing through the crankshaft bearing right over a journal in the case.

I ended up rebuilding the motor with a brand new crank from Porsche and I installed 993 Evo/ SS cams, super high lift and very lumpy sounding at idle. At RPM it’s gobbling up the air and has a very high RPM pull or power band. At about 5000+ RPM it is actually pulling harder at the top end which is mind blowing. I would definitely use these cams again, super impressive for a stock injection, set up.

As it is, my engine pulls like a MF from about 1500 RPM all the way to redline. And that was with the stock injection that won't deliver enough fuel.

So I am going to ITBs and MS3Pro injection on mine, so I should be able to coax more horsepower out of it. I am looking forward to it being back on the road. (Now that I am able to get out in the garage again).

[Steve]

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You totally lucked out getting one already done for way less than it would cost to build it yourself. This will hopefully be my last drive train upgrade to this car.

[kid914]

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[eric9144]

You totally lucked out getting one already done for way less than it would cost to build it yourself. This will hopefully be my last drive train upgrade to this car.

100% (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Also FWIW, what @mepstein describes is exactly the 'recipe' they did on my engine

We go the opposite on our performance 3.6-4.0 builds. Switch to solid rockers and RS style cams.
This is a 993 converted to 3.8, RS cams, big valves, ect.

And since every thread is worthless without pictures (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif)

[Steve]

I trimmed the MB911 tin to fit my 3.6 and cut pieces off the 3.6 tin to fill the gaps. Note the indentation for the 12 plug distributer from the stock tin. Next steps is to either weld the pieces together or use rivets. I cut the top off the rear 3.6 tin but I will need to get the motor off the engine stand to make it all fit.
Next steps:
-Wire up alternator
-Put Fuel Injection back on
-Install Clutch
-Take motor off of engine stand and put on hydraulic table, so I can install the rear tin and mate the 916 gear box.
-Clean up engine compartment and install 3.6 wiring harness, ECU, etc.
-Install drive train.

[Cairo94507]

@Steve - Hi Steve,
Very glad to see you moving forward and ahead of me. Kind of gives us a road map. I hope to pick up my car from Chris' Red Barn the last week of March. Seriously looking forward to getting started on engine stuff. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Steve]

@Steve - Hi Steve,
Very glad to see you moving forward and ahead of me. Kind of gives us a road map. I hope to pick up my car from Chris' Red Barn the last week of March. Seriously looking forward to getting started on engine stuff. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

@cairo94507 Michael, I'm surprised you don't let the red barn cut and paste/weld the tin together. To do it right I envision welding the MB911 tin to the 993 tin in the front and back. Using plug welds, seam welds and scab plates. My welding skills are crap, but you can't really see the tin once the motor is in the car. I will also send it out and get the Frankenstein mess powder coated when done.

[Cairo94507]

@Steve Hi Steve - I have a set of the 993 tins and a new set of Ben's 914-6 tins. We will fit them and weld as needed- do some light bodywork then powder coat satin black. Should look good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Steve]

@Steve Hi Steve - I have a set of the 993 tins and a new set of Ben's 914-6 tins. We will fit them and weld as needed- do some light bodywork then powder coat satin black. Should look good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Facing the motor, I should of cut more out of the 993 tin on the right side, to cover some of the MB911 holes and slots. Old Saying... Measure twice, cut once!!
Same thing with the rear... I should of left the 993 tin one piece and just cut off the top. Then cut off enough of the bottom of the MB911 tin to match the 993 tin, then make it two pieces.
I also plan on cutting the front piece of the tin in half, so I can easily remove it when removing or installing the engine. With the front tin in place, its hard to get to the Rich Johnson mount top bolts and his mount hangs up on the front tin. I don't know if the stock six mount has this problem.

[Cairo94507]

@Steve - Good to know- we shall see how it works out- soon I hope. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[ClayPerrine]

I did the same thing when installing my 4.0 motor. I had to alter the aftermark 914-6 tin and graft in the 3.6 specific items. And I had to fabricate the filler for the left rear where a 914-6 has the oil cooler.

[Steve]

One week at a time. I can’t get to the rear tin with motor on engine stand, so I decided to put motor back together first and then put it on hydraulic table.

One problem at a time. The bottom studs for the motor mount were too short, so I replaced them with bolts like the top. I ended up with Top Right 10x35x1.5. Top left 10x70x1.5 and the bottom 10x55x1.5 and torqued all four to 30 ft-lbs.
The motor mount is a Rich Johnson mount that Otto's installed 25 years ago. I used it on a 2.7 for a couple of years and then on my 3.2 for the last 20+ years.

I used evaporust to clean and remove rust on the hardware. It made some of the hardware look oxidized. I ended up going to ace hardware and replacing all the shroud sheet metal screws. Not factory, but they look great. Factory has the washers permanently on the bolts for a ton more money.

Next is finish up mounting and wiring the alternator and then onto distributor and spark plug wiring and then onto the injection.

[Cairo94507]

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[ClayPerrine]

The motor mount is a Rich Johnson mount that Otto's installed 25 years ago. I used it on a 2.7 for a couple of years and then on my 3.2 for the last 20+ years.

Is it the same engine side mount? I thought the mount spacing on the 3.6 engine was different from the 3.2 and older?

The reason I asked is I bought that half from Rich Johnson for my conversion car. And I had to shorten it to get the transmission mounts to line up.

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We removed 1.25 inches from the U shaped plate between the engine and the arm for the mounts. That got the transmission mounts to line up.

[Steve]

@ClayPerrine the rich johnson mount bolted right up with no issues besides the lower studs being too short. PRS914-6 used the same mount with his 3.6, but his trans was a 915 with a wevo kit. Mine is 916 / Martin Bott. Hope I don't run into any issues. The instructions say good for 2.0-3.6. I wonder if it was an issue with your Boxster trans?

[SirAndy]

@ClayPerrine the rich johnson mount bolted right up with no issues besides the lower studs being too short. PRS914-6 used the same mount with his 3.6, but his trans was a 915 with a wevo kit. Mine is 916 / Martin Bott. Hope I don't run into any issues. The instructions say good for 2.0-3.6. I wonder if it was an issue with your Boxster trans?

No issues with the RJ mount on my car with the 3.6L and a stock 901.
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[ClayPerrine]

@ClayPerrine the rich johnson mount bolted right up with no issues besides the lower studs being too short. PRS914-6 used the same mount with his 3.6, but his trans was a 915 with a wevo kit. Mine is 916 / Martin Bott. Hope I don't run into any issues. The instructions say good for 2.0-3.6. I wonder if it was an issue with your Boxster trans?

I doubt it was the boxster trans. I built a jig that went on the 901 trans bell housing and connected to the trans mounts at the tail cone. Then I bolted the jig to the adapter plate and made the trans mount from it.

The mount was visibily different from the mount I had on the 2.4L engine. But I guess it was only the extra space for the bigger pulley.


Clay

[Steve]

@ClayPerrine the rich johnson mount bolted right up with no issues besides the lower studs being too short. PRS914-6 used the same mount with his 3.6, but his trans was a 915 with a wevo kit. Mine is 916 / Martin Bott. Hope I don't run into any issues. The instructions say good for 2.0-3.6. I wonder if it was an issue with your Boxster trans?

I doubt it was the boxster trans. I built a jig that went on the 901 trans bell housing and connected to the trans mounts at the tail cone. Then I bolted the jig to the adapter plate and made the trans mount from it.

The mount was visibily different from the mount I had on the 2.4L engine. But I guess it was only the extra space for the bigger pulley.


Clay

Rich modded factory motor mounts and you could order it with the AC mount to support the dual pulley for the compressor. I was going to go that route for AC until electric AC compressors became available. Even PMS is now installing electric AC in there 3.6 conversions. https://www.instagram.com/p/C451BwZJjiL/?img_index=1

[Steve]

I trimmed the MB911 tin to fit my 3.6 and cut pieces off the 3.6 tin to fill the gaps. Note the indentation for the 12 plug distributer from the stock tin. Next steps is to either weld the pieces together or use rivets. I cut the top off the rear 3.6 tin but I will need to get the motor off the engine stand to make it all fit. I will be semi copying prs914-6 bottom pictures below, but I know it will not look as nice as his. The tin is pretty buried in the engine compartment so no big deal.
Next steps:
-Wire up alternator
-Put Fuel Injection back on
-Install Clutch
-Take motor off of engine stand and put on hydraulic table, so I can install the rear tin and mate the 916 gear box.
-Clean up engine compartment and install 3.6 wiring harness, ECU, etc.
-Install drive train.