1973 Paris Auto Show - Karmann Stand, ......and the Flag Cars Options

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby

good thing i got my 914 out this morning on dawn patrol.
had a great drive down in the docklands wasteland with no nongs in SUVs blocking my various hooligan antics. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

nows its cold/raining this afternoon but i am still in 914 mood/mode.

dragged out the Karmann Stand @ Paris Auto Show 1973 photos i dug up.
i discovered them on a blog about historic car shows.
they were captioned as from the Paris Auto show 1973.

time to check veracity.
image 1 i found.



compare and contrast with image from ludwigson on your can am website (from excellence). checks out. see notes on photos. its from paris 1973 if K L is to be trusted. and normally he can be.



these appear to be the two cars you term Can Am prototype 2 and 3.

from your website.


---------

which led me to the mystery car on the stand you term protogype 4
and which ludwigson described.



and this other image i dug up from the blog.
its definitely another 914 that was on the stand at the Paris Auto Show.
it was captioned as but additionally the carpet floor tiles on the stand are a match for photo of other 2 cars on stand as are general decor wall colors and graphic thematic.



i conclude two possibilities.
1). this is the image of the third car you seek and K L was mistaken. it did not have drop out side stripes as per porsche turbo on porsche stand. instead it had the earlier form of side stripes. it was not an USA model.
or
2) there was a 4th car on the stand and this is it and the drop out side stripes remains still to be found. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


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additional trivia.

this ones been of interest to me for a while.
the five cars that come under the banner of prototype 1 in your website.
frankfurt auto show cars. the 5 cars with flag themes to do with Can Am.

here is your explanation of the flags and what they represent.




a better clearer picture of the 5 cars in question.




ok i can't see anything french in these graphics or canadian.
i've looked hard.
all that is there is USA, UK and Germany.
no pausible symbols relating to french or canadians.

but i think i cracked it.
there are 5 cars because porsche participated in the CAN AM series for 5 seasons.
1969, 1970, 1971, 1972 and 1973.
(winning the series in 72 and 73).
they did not enter in 66, 67 , 68.

and the teams that fielded porsche cars during those five years were from 3 countries.
UK, Germany and USA.

Penske (USA) , J.W.A. (UK) , A G Dean (UK) , Martini Racing (Germany), Porsche-Audi North America. (USA).

its not about the drivers. they came from backgrounds including canada, mexico, brazil and switzerland as well as UK, USA. its just the teams.
thats my theory anyway.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

i wouldn't mind betting there is very specific intentions in the livery that relates each of the 5 cars specifically to each of the teams. but i don't know enough about the particulars of the teams that would be the clue. the english ones are very interesting.
i can see why you thought the one with rondels might have been french. but the french rondel (air force) is a blue dot and red outer ring. thats the UK rondel from the royal air force. its a pointed reference. either J W automotive (john wyer) or A.G. Dean had something to do with the Royal Air Force. same goes for the USA team cars. one of them is very flamboyant.

whoever designed these liveries was really having fun. i think they are very literate as they say in art criticism circles.

[wonkipop]

i got to do more work on this but i think i can see where the contrast colors for the creamsicle and the bumblebee come from.

1972 series winner (i believe)
(i need to bone up on can am series as its not a race series i know a lot about).






1973 series winner (i believe)





sunoco yellow and L M red?
just another crazy theory.


-------
re the 5 cars with national flag themes.
i think the more stars and bars car (#5) is maybe a homage to the sunoco car?
primarily blue on its upper surface.
and the white body starts and bars at rear (#1) is maybe a homage to the L M car?
mostly white on its upper surfaces.

who really knows, but i think there was some intensive toying around with trying to come up with the graphic theme for the can am 914s that involved the race cars and teams that competed in the series.

as to the UK cars. got no idea. the royal air force rondel has me stumped.
can't find any link yet between JW automotive or Dean racing to RAF.

[wonkipop]

a bit more chronology.

this photo is definitely frankfurt motor show.
dates for Frankfurt are Sept 1973.
this is where the 911 turbo is first shown.
you can tell its frankfurt from architectural detail of columns in display hall and details of karmann stand in background as well as VW signs.



the turbo is shown in proximity to all those 914 graphic cars on karmann stand.

----

next month its shown at paris.
in october.

the image of that is shown in ludwigson's book. different photp entirely.
it would appear karmann cull down their display at the same time in paris to three cars i can find images of.
but there was enough time to have produced a drop out graphic side stripe 914 which does not appear to have been present at frankfurt.

i'll keep image searching - its possible trawling enough images that the karmann stand might appear in the distant background of other paris motor show photos of 1973.
but have not turned up anything yet.

[wonkipop]

re the british rondel 914 on the k stand at frankfurt.

maybe its a bit of a stretch but possibly a reference to John Wyer team solving the problems with the 917 by turning it into a low flying upside down "aircraft". a reverse wing.

Wyer was an early leader in downforce aero theory and practice.
while porsche favoured low drag.

who knows.
but it seems J W A were also involved in the early areo design of the later 917 can am turbo cars.
which i did not know.

https://petrolicious.com/articles/meet-917-...che-into-can-am

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby

re your question whats behind the wall at K stand frankfurt sept 1973.



there are 13 cars.



1. Audi concept by Guigiaro. Asso di Picche concept 1973.
joint venture between Karmann and Guigiaro for a pitch to Audi (VW AG).
(possiblly tha star of the stand?)

2. 914. red with graphics (sent to Paris in October).

3. BMW (sharknose) coupe. built by Karmann.

4. 914. the blue stars and bars flag car.

5. 914. the white UK rondel graphics flag car.

6. 914. the german flag grahics car.

7. 914 (either the white stars and bars or the white union jack, not enough res).

------far corner of stand-------

working back. central section of stand.

8. red karmann beetle cabriolet.

9. metallic green karmann buggy.

10. metallic blue karmann buggy.

---------------

photo 2 - diagonally opposite cnr of stand.



11. orange karmann ghia.

12, 914 metallic green with black graphics (sent to Paris Auto show in October).

13, VW cab beetle. blue and silver. silver paint inside front hood and engine lid.
with VW star steelie sport whees.

------------------

13 is the last car. nothing between 13 and 1.





this is the #13 beetle from frankfurt sept 73 and the third 914 that was sent to Paris in October 73. date of K Post is April 73. cars being prepared then.



#! car. audi concept from karmann post later in 1973 published after frankfurt show.




there would not appear to be an early can am prototype (#1 that were looking for) at Frankfurt apart from the cars you already know about.

what was missing from Frankfurt was one of the five flag cars.
either the UK flag or USA Flag car on white.
also missing was the third car from Paris show with the two black stripes on top and positive porsche side stripes.

---------

was there something on the Porsche stand at Frankfurt with the Turbo Display prototype.

so far only two photos i can find.
all that shows up is a 914 1.8 euro model.
in what appears to be a non standard special color.
not a can am proto.
there may have been more cars as the porsche stand appears to more be extensive
than photos i can presently find.

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby

i've gone back and dug up the bit in Ludvigsen carefully.

he says

"Some spectacular stripe patterns had been shown by Karmann at the Paris Salon in October 1973, on two 914s; the American model had a more conventional bold stripe along each side with "PORSCHE" dropped out in the body color."

I think what he is saying here, with the semi colon punctuation is that when the american model came out it had the drop out graphics, not that there was such a display model at the Paris Auto Show.

The sentence before in the same paragraph, introductory sentence is describing the special american model that was to spur sales. i think what he is doing is discussing the origin of the "can am" car model in the graphics being experimented with at frankfurt and then paris.

i think you have in fact found all the cars that were ever openly displayed.

to me it also seems unlikely that porsche would have wanted a 914 with drop out graphics alongside the reveal of the 930 turbo prototype. they would have wanted maximum impact from its unveiling. i can't see them having a little 914, special as it was borrowing from the - at that time - unique graphics. i think they decide a bit later to use the drop out stripes for offerings including 911s for 74 models.

interesting, because it probably means that the first 2-3 months of 74 MY 914s (which were all 2.0s as far as i can work out) probably did not get the drop out graphics decal on them. not yet available to dealers. be interesting to know when it became available.
had to be after the publicity with the turbo was finished with.

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that third car from paris is a funny one.
i reckon its an older car from karmann's display stock.

photo from karmann post from 1972.



i have a feeling its the same car used again on K Post cover from april 1973 and dispayed at paris in oct 1973. they updated it by taking off the pedrini alloys and fitting fuchs.
(possibly even retro fitted it with a console?).
its a 1972 model if it was the same car used again for karmann show display.

[wonkipop]

ps

got interested in this purely out of curiousity about the drop out side stripes.
my 1.8 is a jan build, apr 74 sale.
i reckon those side stripes come as a possibility directly from whatever design considerations porsche were giving to the final can am package design.

the timing is such that i doubt very much those side stripes in any way were available before well into 74MY.
and just in time for the can am cars.
with a benefit as an option for every other car (just not in phoenix red or sunflower yellow).

what i am seeing in my L jet files is another pattern.
not a lot of examples to go by because so few cars have original paint.
but amongst the L jet cars.
the two stunners from around the time of @Starbears car built Nov 73 and early Dec 73 are cars with positive side stripes.

the negative side stripes start appearing around time of my car built jan 74.

but build dates aren't necessarily the right thing to go by.
rather sales dates as the stripes are dealer installed.

nevertheless the negative side stripes are i think best described as yet another change that happens during the 74 model year not at start. absolutely linked to the "can am" project and caused by it.

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby

this was one of the last little things i was vacuuming up on the 1.8 L jet data.
following up on this post of yours here on this website from nearly 20 years ago.



and what i am coming up with is april 1974.
i have just enough L jet data from very sound original cars gathered on file that shows that the first Ljets built in nov to dec 1973 were being delivered in early to mid april 1973 and were receiving the positive side stripes that were used on cars from 70-73.
and the cars being built in jan 74 and being delivered in late april - may 74 were receiving the negative drop out stripes identical to the "can am" cars.

funnily enough the earliest example i have collected of the negative side stripes is my car. jan 25 1974 build and delivered friday 5 april 1974. in fact of the examples i have on file with delivery paperwork etc mine has the shortest elapsed time between build and delivery. a little over 2 months. most have an approx 3-4 month lag between build and delivery. (kind of fits with the car itself, i think it was actually ordered specifically rather than bought off the showroom floor - with its sway bars, parcel bin etc).

so im finding april is the cross over month where the cars get both positive or negative side stripes depending on the dealer. two of the examples i have on file with the positive side stripes list the stripes on the windscreen sticker forms. both april deliveries.

i'm guessing maybe that possibly the first of the "can ams' must hit the showrooms around late april or early may.

another one of those interesting things about the L jets. the very earliest of them get the positive side stripes and after that from jan build dates on more or less they get the negatives.

ill sort out the data and plug it on to the end of the L jet file thread.

i'll keep searching for a drop out graphic show car but i reckon the turbo prototype is it as far as public display of the graphic goes during late 1973. and then it pops up at the dealers as part of the package for the "can am" cars. all timed to start showing up on the "can am" cars before being fitted widely to any 914 if you wanted them.

EDIT
L jet data with side stripe info noted in.
(will load up later on L jet file thread with images showing examples and documents).
with so many cars repainted over half a century/so few original this is the only examples i can trust.
interestingly all of them are like mine. the decals (whether positive or negative) are full length and wrap around the edges of the lips of the fender into the wheel wells.

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby

last part of the stoopid story concerning idiotic interest in drop out graphics.

33 years ago (1991 - my maths is right?) my dopey dunpy 1.8 with porsche drop out graphic side stripe that everyone laughed at as "go fast stripes" (lose 'em mate along with the engine) and the "stinky" brown interior - oh get rid of that 70s grotesque shite! - was parked in a back lane in south melbourne next to the paris show car turbo.

a bloke called g s had dropped around to see his mate brian c who owned the crayfords green car and also the hamiltons 6. we were standing drinking beers perving at b's freshly acquired 6. i was the youngen' around these two old dudes who knew everything porsche and were real sh$t stirrers as we say in north antarctica.

i still remember b saying to me - mike thats the paris show car turbo.
and i said - what paris show car? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

these guys were loose. and at the same time tight.
check it out.
the paris show car had the same check interior fabric "update" that b c re-upholstered his crayfords 914 2.0 with after the cord seats wore out? probably sourced off his mate the fabrics guy who got material by the roll from india. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) i seem to remember this fabric!!

b c crayfords 2.0



the paris show car turbo after G C converted it to right hand drive and put it on the road after a hamilton had finished racing it.



same fabric - (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .
these guys were a laugh.

here is the story.

https://supercarnostalgia.com/blog/porsche-...is-911-330-0157

if only i had known about negative side stripes 33 years ago.
the little 914 that G S had a good laugh at but still said to me "good on you" was pretty much one of the earliest in the showroom to cop the stripes - and was sitting next to the first one to get them - little did i know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . i seem to remember at the time it had no such stripes still on it from paris. i think the exterior restoration came later. back then it was just a dangerously fast car.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

i had to get to the end of the whole thing and work it out mr b.




left hand drive no problem.
we "butcher" them (to the highest standards) despite dr. 914's frowning. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)
paris show cars and all.

[JeffBowlsby]

Wow. What excellent info you have researched and the sidebar context is tremendous. Your research matches mine, and with greater detail.

The Can Am cars were built from mid-February thru the 1st week of April. Promotion by US dealers began in April/May. One of the earliest cars is the Matsuda Japan SL that George Hussey owns, built first day of production, and it has the negative stripes.

I think you are on to something with that L&M car color scheme and the Creamsicle, LIKE the reference. That CS color scheme is also on the 73 911RS cars. But not the black/yellow combo, I have not found a literal reference for that scheme.

Good on you...

[wonkipop]

Wow. What excellent info you have researched and the sidebar context is tremendous. Your research matches mine, and with greater detail.

The Can Am cars were built from mid-February thru the 1st week of April. Promotion by US dealers began in April/May. One of the earliest cars is the Matsuda Japan SL that George Hussey owns, built first day of production, and it has the negative stripes.

I think you are on to something with that L&M car color scheme and the Creamsicle, LIKE the reference. That CS color scheme is also on the 73 911RS cars. But not the black/yellow combo, I have not found a literal reference for that scheme.

Good on you...

going after images of porsche stand at frankfurt auto show 1973 where the turbo debuted with the drop out side stripes.

found image of one of the long sides of the display stand.
where 911s were lined up (other side to where the lilac or purplish 914 is in other photos).
gets interesting.
they all have the drop out graphics side stripe as per the turbo.



its from this book.



description of the display cars shines a light.
all cars were painted shades of pearl pink through to lilac including the 914s.
in description (limited to the 911s) it notes as well as the special paint color the term "cross hatched PORSCHE script". this must be how porsche refer to the drop out graphics side stripe?

hard not to think that in sept 73 at time of frankfurt show they are thinking of using the drop out graphics on the carrera range.
and the turbo proto carries the same proposed script.
so its not exactly true that the script appears for the first time on the turbo proto.
rather the script appears for the first time on all the porsches at the frankfurt show stand.

i have only two photos showing the side of display with the 914s. i assume there were at least 2. the 1.8 and the 2.0. but only the 1.8 is visible in the photos above in previous posts. the 1.8 does not appear to have the side stripe script at this time.

it seems like the original idea might have been that this was what the Carreras would have as graphic decals.

maybe......what happened.....is they changed their mind on the carreras and went for the cursive script and given they had the design already for the drop out script they shifted that across for use updating the 74 914s just in time to save the "can am" after porsche left the Can AM series?

[wonkipop]

Wow. What excellent info you have researched and the sidebar context is tremendous. Your research matches mine, and with greater detail.

The Can Am cars were built from mid-February thru the 1st week of April. Promotion by US dealers began in April/May. One of the earliest cars is the Matsuda Japan SL that George Hussey owns, built first day of production, and it has the negative stripes.

I think you are on to something with that L&M car color scheme and the Creamsicle, LIKE the reference. That CS color scheme is also on the 73 911RS cars. But not the black/yellow combo, I have not found a literal reference for that scheme.

Good on you...

yeah - agree re bumblebees - not literal like the creamsicle.

but what if the bumblebee was originally going to be dark blue and yellow.
when they were still thinking of explicitely doing a "Can Am" edition before the last minute pull out of the race series in jan 74.
and then as a last minute adjustment just like using the drop out graphics from the frankfurt show 911s they went to black as an opposite to white.

i'm thinking if only those can am proto car photos you got hold of on your website were color rather than black and white. the ones with the can am lettering on the side.
its a dark car for sure with light contrasting bumpers etc. but it could be a color that is not black. we are kind of conditioned to think it must be black.

of course you need the photos. i bet the originals on file with VW or Porsche archive are color. they would have to be given they were assessing and designing the color scheme.

once they detached from them having to be actual CAN AM series celebration cars they were free to move on to another idea about them being 100,000 anniversary special editions.

the red and the yellow might be remaining elements of the earlier original proposal.

again, just a crazy theory, nothing else.

[wonkipop]

@JeffBowlsby these are the two proto photos you have on your website that i am referring to.




could they be dark blue and yellow.
we can't really tell for sure that they are black and yellow at this stage of the proposal.
you end up assuming its black because thats how it finally arrived.
but.........i dunno.

if only these photos were color.

[wonkipop]

this might be worth a polite letter to the porsche museum jeff.
the director there happily went and got that engine number off the silver 1.8 for us.

i have his contact details if you want them.

i think he would be into this bit of history given the can am race series historical significance. the director would have access to the archives to figure this one out.

you might end up getting your answer to the question you once asked.'
why the colors of the "can am" cars? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[wonkipop]

this is a cheap party trick (Sort of).
there are some programs you can use on the net that will colorize a black and white photo.

i got this result from the b/w photos from your website.





i am unwilling to conclude anything other than curiosity out of this.
but i think it well worth following this up with porsche museum director.


i'm kind of happy about the LM cigs theory on the creamsicle.
ive always really liked the creamsicles.
reminds me of sennas low flying marlboro packet mclaren.

[wonkipop]

a couple more.
pretty crude on line tools but i did a few compare contrasts with others on line.
but its wanting to pick up blue.
and its seeing yellow like it should.

you can get much better adobe versions of this but i don't have adobe photoshop on my macs.

[wonkipop]

to satisfy my curiosity regarding relative accuracy of these crude tools i put one of my known photos through a process.

original shot i have.
renault is monaco blue (a kind of slightly deeper version of renault classic alpine blue).
the blue is very similar to the dark sunoco blue of 73 917/10 can am.
914 in background.



stripped it of color (desaturated) using the mac.



then pushed it through the last on line tool i used to see what it did restoring color.



it can sure identify blue from the black and white tones.
and not a bad job on phoenix red either!

i think this might warrant further investigation.
is the bumblebee the end result of what started as a sunoco homage?

[JeffBowlsby]

After you mentioned the Sunoco blue/yellow Can Am, the possible connection clicked with me too.

But a couple of thoughts. Standard Porsche colors for 1974 had no blue even close to the Sunoco blue. Could be why they chose black. They could have done a special color run for 500 BB cars (that would have been a treat!) but didn’t. The Porsche-Audi dealership newsletter announcing the cars described the color as black. Also the 100,000 car poster is clearly black. Did you see the other version of that poster with the phoenix red lettering? Wonder why a CS 100,000 poster has not been found?.

Would be happy to contact the P guy, please pm me the contact

[wonkipop]

After you mentioned the Sunoco blue/yellow Can Am, the possible connection clicked with me too.

But a couple of thoughts. Standard Porsche colors for 1974 had no blue even close to the Sunoco blue. Could be why they chose black. They could have done a special color run for 500 BB cars (that would have been a treat!) but didn’t. The Porsche-Audi dealership newsletter announcing the cars described the color as black. Also the 100,000 car poster is clearly black. Did you see the other version of that poster with the phoenix red lettering? Wonder why a CS 100,000 poster has not been found?.

Would be happy to contact the P guy, please pm me the contact

will PM you his details after i dig them up from emails.

there could be absolutely nothing to this.
just a crazy theory.
whats the date on the porsche audi newsletter announcement of color.

the poster seems to be after they had pretty much nailed the BB in final form.
wonder what the dates on those earlier can am protos photos are.

i guess this can really only be answered by porsche archivist/historian if the material still resides on file. i think the development of this particular project would actually lie with porsche rather than either karmann or VW so the documents likely lie with porsche.

kind of half interesting to me now that i have built up an understanding of how 74 production development happened.
first couple of months of 2.0s basically in 73 model form in terms of tech development.
then the L jets come in for three months of production and there is a host of changes done as technical updates and material updates occur.
and then bam its into LEs incorporating all those updates done with the L jets that distinguish those 2.0s from the first batch of 2.os built in second half of 73.
pretty hectic stuff.

re creamsicle.
quite possibly there is no poster existing of it.
the proto development with the shots you have seems to be entirely done with dark colored cars. almost as if the decision to do a creamsicle comes late in the piece.
but who knows. there may be material on file with porsche that has failed to be dug up and published.

thinking about it the way into this with the curator at porsche is to remind him its timely.
this is the 50th anniversary of the intended celebration of Can am back to back wins in 72/73. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) and the SE/LE/GT cars themselves. april/may. what better time than to go into it in detail. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[JeffBowlsby]

My images cam from the Ludwigsen EWE book. Th Porsche Parade was March 1974 and a press release in April. See below and the pdf attachment.