SCCA catagory for my 914-4, racing catagory 914 Options

[brant]

No matter what sanctioning body
Classes often include displacement in their formulas

No matter testing displacement or not
Honestly of the applicant I and integrity of the persons word is important

[Charles Freeborn]

... then there's vintage. You'd be in VP2 I believe with the 2.0L

what is the displacement again?
don't think you have said..
gather its bigger than 2.0

that is your largest barrier most likely.
brant

Here are vintage sups for our region. A 914 would be far more competetive as a 1.8 with 2.0 heads in VP1. Mine is a 2.6 so I'm automatically in VP2 (for now at least).

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6559...ements+2024.pdf

[FastFroggy]

Just noticed that I missed a few questions.

a. yes, current engine is a 2.0L (19xx cc)
b. Im fin to do Vintage, but looking to get my full SCCA license asap. (only just got my novice permit.)

[FastFroggy]

Thanks again for all who are contributing.

Been reading up on the GCR in chunks so still do not have a full view of all class details.

EP sounds great for a local and Division level, but to get legal need some more part downgrades ( IE Carbs, Wheels, Brakes).

Based on this forum discussion, my initial concern about meeting class rules, I am a bit more focused on improving safety. I am willing to spend a bit on that.

I may be even less competitive, but at my home track I do not expect it will matter much, I am considering to class the car in GT3. I would need to get a fuel cell, but I think that is it.

Thoughts?

[Charles Freeborn]

Your SCCA license will work for pretty much any amateur club race, vintage included. There is a strictly vintage SCCA license, but aside from lower cost I don't see much reason for that.
EP is a veny competitive class. Lot's of 3 series BMW and other more modern OHC cars. The 914, with it's pushrod engine will have trouble keeping up. You don't say what your home track is, but that's a big factor too. In a tight technical race you'll be in the hunt. If it's flat and fast not so much. Equally important as the engine is the gearbox and how it's set up. You need to maximize the limited power you have to work with. Building Porsche transmissions is not cheap either..
For now, get your license, learn the car get as much seat time as you can, race or hpde and go have fun. Let the racing unfold at it's and your pace.

PS I'm not able to see your pics. The link takes me to my google drive.

[GregAmy]

...I am considering to class the car in GT3. I would need to get a fuel cell, but I think that is it.

Utterly uncompetitive nationally, but you'll still have fun at home. Amd no one will care about any mods that may be non-compliant (which may be none).

I'd need to see your cage, but you may be required to install two stubs from the front legs to the firewall, plus a lateral "dash" bar. Kill switch, window net, fuel cell, fire system required. Up to date harnesses, of course, and a good racing seat. Brake lights. Rain light, if your stock taillights are disabled. Disable steering lock. Tow hooks each end.

I'm drawing a total blank here but are 914 windshields bonded in? Rubber-installed windshields need windshield retention clips, bonded windshields do not.

We need to hook you up with a local inspector to start the inspection process and give you tips on what needs to be done. Send an email to the road racing director of Detroit region to find out to who to work with: http://drscca.org/race/

And I strongly suggest some kind of either dry sump or Accusump (former preferred). - GA

[FastFroggy]

Hope this finally works, will get photos of the front cage and rear cage points later today. All connected in full 8pt cage.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.ibb.co-19415-1715894336.1.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.ibb.co-19415-1715894337.2.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.ibb.co-19415-1715894337.3.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.ibb.co-19415-1715894338.4.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.ibb.co-19415-1715894338.5.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.ibb.co-19415-1715894339.6.jpg)

[GregAmy]

>>> I'd need to see your cage...

Looks good from here.

>>> Kill switch

Installed. Ensure everything goes through it, and run the car and flip it to see if the car dies. That's how we test them.

>>> fire system required

I see it's there. Ensure the bottle is up to spec.

>>> Up to date harnesses

In 2017, SFI changed from tags listing the manufacturing date, to tags listing an expiration date. The old ones were good for five years with SCCA, the new ones two years. Yours appear to be the older manufacturing-dated SFI; if that's correct then you'll need to replace your harnesses.

However, if yours actually have another tag that gives an expiration date, ensure they're good through 2024.

Spend a little more for the FIA ones. They're good for five years instead of two.

>>> a good racing seat

Those look good. Give 'em a good shake and ensure they're "securely mounted".

A back brace is not required by SCCA, but may be required by other orgs.

Note that if you run with the top off, you must pass "the broomstick test" and use arm restraints. That mean the top of your helmet must be two inches below a broomstick (or whatever) handle placed across the top of the rollbars.

Ironically, if you install the plastic targa top, your helmet can actually touch the top and no one cares. Don't ask me why...

>>> windshield retention clips

Yours seem to comply.

>>> window net, fuel cell...Brake lights. Rain light, if your stock taillights are disabled. Disable steering lock. Tow hooks each end.

Check you comply with those.

[moto914]

Great thread.

[FastFroggy]

Thanks for the clarity of feedback. I have a follow-up question.

My read of the GCR seems to contradict my understanding. Arm Restraints are required for the Targa, but it seems to indicate that window net is also required in addition. Is that correct?

[GregAmy]

Arm Restraints are required for the Targa, but it seems to indicate that window net is also required in addition. Is that correct?

It is not correct. Once you remove the targa top, you become an "open top car" and all that that implies.

A targa top car, minus the top, is considered open top and requires arm restraints. With the targa installed, it's closed top and requires a window net. There's nothing against running both, but with arm restraints, a window net becomes redundant (its purpose is to keep your arms inside the car).

I've requested that SCCA explicitly define open top versus closed top, but they refused. Dunno why.

My car carries both configs, depending on how I prefer to run it (or, for example, I am forced to run mone with the top closed at the Lime Rock Historics, otherwise they put me with the sports racers instead of "tin tops"...)

[ChrisFoley]

IIRC, in the production classes, if you remove the roof you also have to remove the windshield and rear glass. Otherwise the roof needs to be secured with bolts rather than latches.

[groot]

You're local to me... and if I recall, you may work in the same building as I do. I'll be in the office tomorrow before heading to Spa. Look me up and swing by.

[brant]

Nice to see you here kevin

[groot]

Thanks, Brant... I stalk every once in a while... been crazy busy, but everyone is. I see Erik often... always good the catch up with him.

[GregAmy]

The whole open-top/closed-top thing is a PITA and SCCA refuses to clearly define it. I asked last Fall for a explicit definition to be added to the GCR Technical glossary but it was denied; I suspect it's because of some conflicting prep regs (which is why I requested it) and they don't want to step into that pile.

The only reference I can find to the intent is GCR 9.3.18, Driver's Restraint System, "Arm restraints are required on all open cars including open Targa tops, sunroofs and T-tops."

This implies, but does not define, that a targa car with the top off is "open" (which requires arm restraints) and with it on it's "closed" (which requires a window net).

GCR 9.3.17 refers to Detachable Panels/Sunroofs, implying that targa tops must be removed, however it also states, "Movable or removable metal or composite panels in the roof may be either removed or positively secured in the closed position." But then, "Any openings in the roof resulting from the removal of a panel must be covered..."

"Well, which is it, young feller? You want I should freeze or get down on the ground?" (name that movie reference...)

The Production regs allow, but do not require, cutting of the windshield and removal of the rear glass (9.1.5.E.9.a.8.A, "Open cars may remove the windshield glass, door window glass, quarter window glass, rear glass, vent glass...If removed, a replacement windshield must be installed...) This is the regs that was intorturated back in the 70s to "replace" the windshield and frame with the now-well-known "Ginther Windshield".

If would seem, by general practice, that SCCA thus considers targa-top-equipped cars as open top for the purpose of this reg, as no one that I'm aware of has ever been bounced for Ginthering a Porsche 914. 'Specially since Ginther was probably the first one to do that.

So if you pop the targa top, whether or not you choose not to cut the windshield, then you're an open car (and its associated regs requirements).

Unsurprisingly, the GT regs say nothing about open top versus closed top cars. The inconsistency is palpable...and frustrating. But GT regs are so permissive now that it doesn't matter, no one will care.

Frankly, unless you're willing to go the whole Ginther route, it's preferable from an aerodynamics perspective to leave the roof on. But given the really bad aero we have with that rear roof deck, if you get serious about aero you'd want to go full Ginther.

I think a Ginthered 914 looks cool. I keep wanting to do that to mine but Chris keeps talking me out of it...and points me to the chassis he has for sale that's already done.

EDIT: if you're interested in the aero, this is an interesting discussion: http://www.cassidy-online.com/porsche914/a...aids/index.html

[gms]

you might want to check out
VSCDA
and
Midwestern Council of Sports Car Clubs

these are two local clubs that have great racing events and both have vintage classes

[FastFroggy]

GregAmy, Somewhat glad to hear I was the only one getting confused on the subject of open/closed and window net/arm restraints. I will be getting a new logbook, the window net is something I will need to iron out.

For now my biggest hurdle is the fuel cell. Working on that.

Thanks again for all the insight.

[Charles Freeborn]

Fun looking car. Similar to my last one built by AJRS for a now gone GT5S class of PCA racing. You'll have to comb the GRC to see if all the body and suspension / brake mods kick you out of a P class - GA will be the best to comment on that. If so you'll fall in a "catch all" class of GTx or SPU. SCCA vintage VP2 is still an option, but against up to 3.0L cars you'll get spanked. Drop the engine to a 1.8 and run in VP1 and you'd be very competitive. You could also just run in VP1 and see if anyone protests. As an novice i doubt they will as the little 510 datsuns are screamers. Good luck beating them... Have fun with it, but yes, absolutely get a fuel cell into it. I also highly recommend an oil pressure activated fuel pump cut out switch. If the engine dies it shuts off the fuel pump. The car starts from what's in the carb bowls. You can wire in a momentary over ride switch if the carbs are empty (sitting / stored long enough for carb bowls to evap)

[infraredcalvin]

Raising Arizona (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

@GregAmy