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> Brain fart regulator question
mb911
post Jun 17 2024, 01:10 PM
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So was noticing I have less voltage while the car is running. I am use to seeing 13/14 volts as the pretty much normal. I have a fairly new marchel alternator and this year I am seeing 13v on the high side. Now I do have more electrical items, wide band o2, mega squirt, and active exhaust. Regulator going bad? Pictured in upper left. Hmm maybe I have them on the wrong pins? Might have messed that up?Attached Image
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rgalla9146
post Jun 17 2024, 01:19 PM
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All consumers off ? Belt too loose ?
I can't describe how it's done but I understand there is a way to test output of an
alternator before the VR.
Maybe someone can chime in ?
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mb911
post Jun 17 2024, 01:44 PM
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QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Jun 17 2024, 11:19 AM) *

All consumers off ? Belt too loose ?
I can't describe how it's done but I understand there is a way to test output of an
alternator before the VR.
Maybe someone can chime in ?



That would be great if someone would. It would suck to have to change the alternator now
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mlindner
post Jun 17 2024, 02:06 PM
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Ben, why are using a remote regulator....Arn't they all in the alternators on 911s. or 914-6 went the same way as the fours. Mark
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mb911
post Jun 17 2024, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE(mlindner @ Jun 17 2024, 12:06 PM) *

Ben, why are using a remote regulator....Arn't they all in the alternators on 911s. or 914-6 went the same way as the fours. Mark



No none of them until the mid 80s went to integrated regulators. The external regulators actually work really well. I just need to relearn it
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BillC
post Jun 17 2024, 03:05 PM
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Wait ... someone makes a brain fart regulator? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I could use one of those at work! Where can I order one?
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mb911
post Jun 17 2024, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE(BillC @ Jun 17 2024, 01:05 PM) *

Wait ... someone makes a brain fart regulator? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I could use one of those at work! Where can I order one?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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windforfun
post Jun 17 2024, 03:31 PM
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Since your regulator isn't part of your alternator, can't you just put a voltmeter at the output of the alternator & measure it's output voltage as you rev the engine?

What am I missing here?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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Artfrombama
post Jun 17 2024, 03:40 PM
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What are the normal voltages? All I'm getting from my alternator is 13.6V
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mb911
post Jun 17 2024, 04:39 PM
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QUOTE(windforfun @ Jun 17 2024, 01:31 PM) *

Since your regulator isn't part of your alternator, can't you just put a voltmeter at the output of the alternator & measure it's output voltage as you rev the engine?

What am I missing here?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)



Well it’s AC coming of the alternator then the regulator /recitifier turns it to DC
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Superhawk996
post Jun 17 2024, 05:02 PM
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Ben,

I’m on vacation with no access to my technical documents but happy to see what I can find on-line to help.

I don’t recognize that regulator. Is is just a 3 pin mechanical regulator or is it something different?

You should be seeing higher than 13v with say rev’s higher than 1500-2000 rpm.

As others have alluded to - make sure you don’t have some high current draw somewhere loading the system heavily. I doubt that is the case - it would take a heck of a lot of load but something like heated seats or something like an active exhaust actuator that is stuck might be pulling high current???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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windforfun
post Jun 17 2024, 05:09 PM
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"All I'm getting from my alternator is 13.6 V."

???

Then measure the AC voltage which will be either rms or peak depending on your voltmeter. The rms voltage is peak/1.4.

What you measure at the wall socket is rms. FYI.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)


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mb911
post Jun 17 2024, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Jun 17 2024, 03:02 PM) *

Ben,

I’m on vacation with no access to my technical documents but happy to see what I can find on-line to help.

I don’t recognize that regulator. Is is just a 3 pin mechanical regulator or is it something different?

You should be seeing higher than 13v with say rev’s higher than 1500-2000 rpm.

As others have alluded to - make sure you don’t have some high current draw somewhere loading the system heavily. I doubt that is the case - it would take a heck of a lot of load but something like heated seats or something like an active exhaust actuator that is stuck might be pulling high current???? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)



The fuses to the active exhaust are 5 amp so that’s not it. I will check connections and then I will probably dissect the regulator and see if it needs cleaning etc
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mb911
post Jun 17 2024, 05:22 PM
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QUOTE(windforfun @ Jun 17 2024, 03:09 PM) *

"All I'm getting from my alternator is 13.6 V."

???

Then measure the AC voltage which will be either rms or peak depending on your voltmeter. The rms voltage is peak/1.4.

What you measure at the wall socket is rms. FYI.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)



Well I know I am getting some charging just not as much as I want so the alternator is producing power
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windforfun
post Jun 17 2024, 05:25 PM
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Let me clarify here. If your voltmeter reads 120 V at the wall socket, then it measures rms voltage.

Speaking of power, 1 watt = 1 volt amp. Measuring current is a PITA since you need a really beefy ammeter that has to be placed in series with the circuit that you're testing. This is old school like me.

On the other hand, you can go with one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-302-Digital-Cl...72629&psc=1

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Superhawk996
post Jun 17 2024, 05:27 PM
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Assuming you’re running a 3 pin mechanical regulator here’s the 911 factory manual diagram / color code

Not at all uncommon to get some corrosion on the regulator contacts that can inhibit charging. In the past I’ve hit them with 400 grit and revived an in-op regulator.

Your regulator appears to have the cover riveted on unlike the Bosch /4 regulators there just have a taped on cover
Attached Image

One last thing to keep in mind is the charging voltage is dependent on battery state of charge. So if your battery is fully charged, you’re not going to develop 14v of charging voltage.

Does your charging voltage change as you load the alternator with headlamps or blower fans?
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windforfun
post Jun 17 2024, 05:37 PM
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This guy knows his shit.
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Superhawk996
post Jun 17 2024, 05:48 PM
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I’m going to post one more which is Spoke’s simplified schematic for an alternator and 3 pin regulator

I did a strike through on a line that has no bearing to your issue.

As previously noted the voltage on the field (DF) will vary based on battery state of charge and the electrical load the system is seeing. A higher voltage on DF indicates the system is “pushing” the alternator harder and trying to increase alternator output.

Attached Image

Note: color codes on this reflect the /4 914 regulator wiring. The other illustration is from a 911 factory manual and 911 wiring, thus the difference in color of wires.

Note 2: the voltage measurement of DF is referenced with the regulator plugged in and functioning by rapidly energizing and de-energizing the solenoid coil within the regulator.
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worn
post Jun 17 2024, 07:12 PM
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Battery healthy? In some cases the alternator just cannot find enough charge to push against.
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mb911
post Jun 17 2024, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE(worn @ Jun 17 2024, 05:12 PM) *

Battery healthy? In some cases the alternator just cannot find enough charge to push against.



That’s a good possibility the battery is a pretty old optima. Switching to a new battery shortly. Good thought as well.
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