1.7 Rebuild First Start Up Advice, 1.7 Start Up on stand Options

[930cabman]

If I’m going to tear this engine down to inspect, a proper engine stand would probably easier than the home made test start stand it’s on now. What engine stands do y’all prefer?

HF will have something decent for not alot of $$, but you will need a yoke, can't remember where I found mine?

[Robroe]

I DON"T like the raised 95.95.

I want the tops of my pistons smooth as a "baby's ass"

The valve reliefs look rough too.

Look like inexpensive forged to me.

I'd fully tear down.

Remove heads, lock jugs in case with crossbars (you can use wood here, just trying to lock jugs to case) check deck heights and stroke.

Now you know how big it is...

If it's a stroker (more than 71) I'd fully tear down because of it.

Strokers REQUIRE special tricks for clearance of the crank/rods/camshaft and are a significant increase in complexity for the builder.

If it comes out stock 2.0l (71) I might check "feel" of the assembly and re-assemble.

If you have a stroker there you hit the jackpot!

I'd LOVE to "find" a 78mm stroke with flat tops at 96mm bore. That is a 2255 and is a VERY GOOD combo to have.

Take pictures and post on here. You will get opinions, lots of opinions...

[Robroe]

I DON"T like the raised 95.95.

I want the tops of my pistons smooth as a "baby's ass"

The valve reliefs look rough too.

Look like inexpensive forged to me.

I'd fully tear down.

Remove heads, lock jugs in case with crossbars (you can use wood here, just trying to lock jugs to case) check deck heights and stroke.

Now you know how big it is...

If it's a stroker (more than 71) I'd fully tear down because of it.

Strokers REQUIRE special tricks for clearance of the crank/rods/camshaft and are a significant increase in complexity for the builder.

If it comes out stock 2.0l (71) I might check "feel" of the assembly and re-assemble.

If you have a stroker there you hit the jackpot!

I'd LOVE to "find" a 78mm stroke with flat tops at 96mm bore. That is a 2255 and is a VERY GOOD combo to have.

Take pictures and post on here. You will get opinions, lots of opinions...

[Robroe]

I DON"T like the raised 95.95.

I want the tops of my pistons smooth as a "baby's ass"

The valve reliefs look rough too.

Look like inexpensive forged to me.

I'd fully tear down.

Remove heads, lock jugs in case with crossbars (you can use wood here, just trying to lock jugs to case) check deck heights and stroke.

Now you know how big it is...

If it's a stroker (more than 71) I'd fully tear down because of it.

Strokers REQUIRE special tricks for clearance of the crank/rods/camshaft and are a significant increase in complexity for the builder.

If it comes out stock 2.0l (71) I might check "feel" of the assembly and re-assemble.

If you have a stroker there you hit the jackpot!

I'd LOVE to "find" a 78mm stroke with flat tops at 96mm bore. That is a 2255 and is a VERY GOOD combo to have.

Take pictures and post on here. You will get opinions, lots of opinions...

[Robroe]

I DON"T like the raised 95.95.

I want the tops of my pistons smooth as a "baby's ass"

The valve reliefs look rough too.

Look like inexpensive forged to me.

I'd fully tear down.

Remove heads, lock jugs in case with crossbars (you can use wood here, just trying to lock jugs to case) check deck heights and stroke.

Now you know how big it is...

If it's a stroker (more than 71) I'd fully tear down because of it.

Strokers REQUIRE special tricks for clearance of the crank/rods/camshaft and are a significant increase in complexity for the builder.

If it comes out stock 2.0l (71) I might check "feel" of the assembly and re-assemble.

If you have a stroker there you hit the jackpot!

I'd LOVE to "find" a 78mm stroke with flat tops at 96mm bore. That is a 2255 and is a VERY GOOD combo to have.

Take pictures and post on here. You will get opinions, lots of opinions...

Sorry about the multiple posts of the same photo. Learning how to use the site.

[technicalninja]

THAT LOOKS PROMISING!

You might have hit a home run...

Fancy retainers/springs, RAT etched in.

Show MORE!

[Superhawk996]

For OP

RAT = Raby Aircooled Technology
HAM = Hoffman Automotive Machine

Those are nice heads - this is why it’s important to disassemble & understand if anything is not clearanced properly.

Those are expensive heads - you don’t want to damage them

[technicalninja]

You couldn't have any better markings than that!!!!!

The 44s are probably correct.

If it's what I think it is it's MORE than 30K today.

You should ALSO have a "Billy Bad Ass" exhaust with it.

If it measures anything over 71 on stroke you NEED one!

There's a pretty good one in the classifieds right now that might pair well with that motor.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=370909

Looks like it's pending right now.

It's the nicest 4-cylinder exhaust that has been in the classifieds in 18months...

You have what I WANT to find. A hidden Raby motor (maybe)!

You might have hit a "Grand Slam!"

Be STUPID careful with the lifters. There is a chance they are ceramic or roller...

[technicalninja]

Pull the tins FIRST!!!!

You want to look at the jugs. If they are "Nickies" you hit the home run.

They will look 911 "like". not VW finned. Aluminum with denser machined fins.

[Superhawk996]

Pull the tins FIRST!!!!

You want to look at the jugs. If they are "Nickies" you hit the home run.

They will look 911 "like". not VW finned. Aluminum with denser machined fins.

Can see the cylinders without pulling the tin but as stated previously I’d be going through the whole engine anyway.

Raby serializes his engines so unless case has RAT serial number it’s probably not a whole Raby built engine . . . But you never know. If I recall Raby / HAM developed heads were sold on Type 4 Store years ago. Not exactly sure how those were stamped.

For OP - Nickies cyclinders are billet aluminum - very distinctive. Here’s a set of 100mm cylinders I have slated for a build as example of what they look like

[technicalninja]

@SuperHawk996 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

Those are NICE!

Look at how thick the walls are!

You're going to have far less trouble sealing to the head with those.

Nice FAT sealing surface!

What stroke are you pairing those with?

[Jack Standz]

That is some very good news for you. Those heads represent many many hours of development by Len Hoffman and Jake Raby.

When setup right with proper valvetrain geometry and then the right tuning (ignition timing too), you should be in for some serious HP, but with cool running and longevity too. They come with really good parts too, like springs, valves, guides, retainers, and calling them "ported" doesn't do them justice to the development and time invested to get them to flow just right. And they are expensive.

You might have Nickies too. Maybe the rest of the motor is by RAT, but since it wasn't started, it's more likely a kit. But, that's still good news because RAT used very good parts. Parts that were matched to the motor and the intended purpose. So, since a 914 owner had it, it's unlikely a "camper" (bus) motor. All good news. Definitely want to make sure she's put together 100% right before you start her up.

Good luck! And, go out and buy a lottery ticket, OK.

[emerygt350]

Man, I would hate to tear that down if it was professionally assembled.

[Superhawk996]

Man, I would hate to tear that down if it was professionally assembled.

I’d hate to start it if it were not.

[930cabman]

For OP

RAT = Raby Aircooled Technology
HAM = Hoffman Automotive Machine

Those are nice heads - this is why it’s important to disassemble & understand if anything is not clearanced properly.

Those are expensive heads - you don’t want to damage them

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) It's worth the small $ to invest and find out exactly what lies within

[Robroe]

For OP

RAT = Raby Aircooled Technology
HAM = Hoffman Automotive Machine

Those are nice heads - this is why it’s important to disassemble & understand if anything is not clearanced properly.

Those are expensive heads - you don’t want to damage them

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) It's worth the small $ to invest and find out exactly what lies within

Pict of cylinder. Any idea what it is? I'm hoping to take one head off in a day or two and measure cylinder.

[emerygt350]

First of all, looks like 2.0 heads to me. Cylinders look like iron but I could be wrong. The spacers under them are legion. I think you need to pull a head at this point just to know the valve size and deck height, but if I were you, I wouldn't crack the case. I know all the old fuddy duddies are going to tie their underwear in knots over that but if everything looks good up top, you can verify plenty of valve clearance (which you can do by pulling the head) and you can get a measure of the compression, I would have to ask myself if I could do better job than the last guy on the bottom end. Would I take it right out onto the track? No, I would carefully get it going and build up confidence in the previous person's build.

If you see everything looking like quality, I would go for it. But that is me.

[Robroe]

First of all, looks like 2.0 heads to me. Cylinders look like iron but I could be wrong. The spacers under them are legion. I think you need to pull a head at this point just to know the valve size and deck height, but if I were you, I wouldn't crack the case. I know all the old fuddy duddies are going to tie their underwear in knots over that but if everything looks good up top, you can verify plenty of valve clearance (which you can do by pulling the head) and you can get a measure of the compression, I would have to ask myself if I could do better job than the last guy on the bottom end. Would I take it right out onto the track? No, I would carefully get it going and build up confidence in the previous person's build.

If you see everything looking like quality, I would go for it. But that is me.

Magnet sticks to cylinders so definitely not aluminum.

[Robroe]

First of all, looks like 2.0 heads to me. Cylinders look like iron but I could be wrong. The spacers under them are legion. I think you need to pull a head at this point just to know the valve size and deck height, but if I were you, I wouldn't crack the case. I know all the old fuddy duddies are going to tie their underwear in knots over that but if everything looks good up top, you can verify plenty of valve clearance (which you can do by pulling the head) and you can get a measure of the compression, I would have to ask myself if I could do better job than the last guy on the bottom end. Would I take it right out onto the track? No, I would carefully get it going and build up confidence in the previous person's build.

If you see everything looking like quality, I would go for it. But that is me.

Magnet sticks to cylinders so definitely not aluminum.

What is a legion spacer?

[Superhawk996]

I know all the old fuddy duddies are going to tie their underwear in knots over that but if everything looks good up top, you can verify plenty of valve clearance (which you can do by pulling the head) and you can get a measure of the compression, I would have to ask myself if I could do better job than the last guy on the bottom end.

If you see everything looking like quality, I would go for it. But that is me.

While you have it apart, lubricate it properly and get ready for startup, especiallythe special lube on the cam lobes. We also had a 2056 project motor that was stalled and sat for over 10 years. When we got back to the project, the molly-lube turned into a grey stiff gunk. Cleaned things up and started again with new bearings, etc.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I guess I’ll wear the old fuddy duddie title with honor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

There is no rocket science to putting a bottom end together but there are a lot of details that matter.

Without some decent lube on the cam, it’s not impossible to wipe out a cam in the first 20 minutes of initial break-in run time. The more aggressive the cam, the more I want assembly lube not just coincidental oil splash.

Don’t know about you but I’d like to be sure there is some assembly lube on all the bearings rather than depending on cranking the engine with ignition disabled to build oil pressure. Did the oil pump get coated with some light grease so that it builds oil pressure quickly or will it take extended cranking to build oil pressure?

What are the bearing clearances? What do you do if it starts up and has low oil pressure - then what? Yeah, disassemble and look at & measure bearing clearances.

Did the cam get a single thrust bearing or was it done Raby style with a double thrust bearing? For that matter what cam is in there?

Were the rods torqued properly? What rods are in it, stock or maybe H-beam or I-beam. So many details that matter. Especially if this is truly a hot-rod build looking to be spun up (otherwise why bother with double valve springs).

I’ll grant you that whoever paid for RAT / HAM heads probably wasn’t his 1st rodeo but there is no guarantee this wasn’t quickly assembled by someone else just to get it sold and moved along down the road.